Just thinking out loud....I think I get what you're saying, and yet The floodgates opened four years ago for racism in America that has been here all along, and the shit-show of Trumpism has revealed to me that, unfortunately, there absolutely ARE people today who would be thrilled to see a return to slavery.

I am wondering what it means to be a product of one's time. As much as one might say that of Washington, Jefferson, or Lincoln, were abolitionist Quakers NOT products of those times?

FTR, I do not forgive their flaws. There were literally millions of people who didn't own slaves. It was a moral choice and not a "product of their times". Most of Europe had outlawed the practice and there were founders who didn't own slaves that were also a product of their times, the difference was the choices they made about how to treat other HUMAN BEINGS in their pursuit of personal profit.

Abraham Lincoln held the nation together but also said that if keeping slaves would have achieved that goal he would have gladly done that. George Washington took the real teeth of slaves to replace his own (https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/health/washingtons-teeth/george-washington-and-slave-teeth/) and Thomas Jefferson's "noble document" codified dehumanizing black people and set up a precedent for a cast structure that was foundational for the rampant racism in this country today.

As you can see, I have a very different POV of those "noble men" and I am not so quick to look over their tremendous flaws and pretend that their accomplishments does anything to overshadow those flaws. Black children should not be taught to lionize white men who kept their ancestors in bondage just so that some people can feel good about the founders while the work, sweat and tears of those same ancestors contributed so much to the building of this nation with little to no recognition at all.

@mike @redbai In no way am I suggesting that children be taught to 'lionize' these men!

What I am suggesting is this...we recognize the time they lived in and the values therein. Values and attitudes have changed greatly over the life of our species and will most likely continue to do so. We need to educate children to think about this...to recognize what our society needs to accomplish in today's times and to implement those actions.

NONE of the founders were perfect...obviously....but they had the intelligence and perception to see how they could create a new nation. There's a lot of good to be said about that and vilifying the men who did that makes no sense at all.

@LucyLoohoo Vilifying them only makes no sense if your ancestors weren't their victims. I see a value in pointing out that people who owned slaves, especially as done in the southern states of America, no matter who they are or what their achievements, are immoral people who should not be admired. Not everyone agrees.

Being imperfect is not an excuse to make the immoral choice to own slaves. Millions of non-perfect people throughout history managed not to own slaves so I'm not sure what "value" or "attitude" you're suggesting didn't exist then that does now. Slave owners, even the ones that were founders, made decisions to enhance their personal wealth and legacies at the expense of and lives of human beings. Those decisions destroyed millions of lives from infants to any black person with the misfortune of growing old as a slave; if that shouldn't be vilified, what should? What is the point of mitigating the harm done by people who made immoral choices? I won't even get into what they did to the Native Americans to take the land in order to grow tobacco and cotton, that's another disgusting chapter not covered in the elementary school history books.

And FTR, this "time they lived" argument is BS. It totally ignores the fact that there were people during those times who chose not to own slaves. It ignores that there were campaigns to end slavery from the country's founding. It ignores the creation of and the treachery to protect a way of life that enshrined the superiority of one person over another for no better reason than skin color; a new American phenomenon. It ignores the purposeful lies to perpetuate said "way of life". It ignores that it was a MORAL choice whether or not to own slaves and the founders made the immoral choice for no better reason that personal gain.

That should be taught, not ignored as if they did no wrong or that their immorality is somehow mitigated because they started a country that has still not reached its promise.

@redbai NOWHERE have I suggested ''whitewashing'' the deeds of slave-owners. Far better to introduce world-wide slavery as a topic in history. It's certainly not just ''a new American phenomenon." And we can't forget the active participation of various churches who enabled the acceptance of slavery, based on biblical accounts of slavery.

@LucyLoohoo "There's a lot of good to be said about that and vilifying the men who did that makes no sense at all."

Why should slave owners not be vilified? Why does it make no sense to do so? Why should US History discuss world-wide slavery instead of focusing on it as it manifested here in the country? I didn't say that slavery was "uniquely American". The idea of being born into slavery on the assumption that the color of one's skin was relevant to not only freedom, but their humanity was uniquely American.

The bible doesn't say anything about exclusively make Africans slaves nor does it say to create a whole slave dynamic based on skin color; again, uniquely American. The bible didn't say to create a constitution that explains how to and allows masters to use their slaves as political power. Neither Thomas Jefferson or George Washington used biblical standards to justify either their "superiority" or slavery in general. While, IMO, it is a vile document, it's hardly responsible for the moral choices of American founders.