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Is it appropriate to influence 5-year-olds with adult political views like "socialism is bad", "a powerful creature (government, I assume) is stealing their grandparents' hard-earned savings", "politicians want us to be scared so that we will surrender our freedoms by asking them to grow government", etc? It is easy to drill such ideas into small children's heads because their brains are like sponge. Is this act any different from brainwashing them into religious beliefs?

Anyway, what do you think about these books?

[tuttletwins.com]

Ryo1 8 Aug 3
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20 comments

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1

As long as these books don't make it into public school curriculum we will have to live with them
The parents that buy them for their children are indoctrinating them in these same beliefs anyway regardless of whether or not those beliefs are offered to them in a book. I did my best to indoctrinate my children in completely different beliefs and to a certain degree I was successful. The parents that believe differently than me will often be successful too.

Hi there. I guess most parents believe that they are protecting their children with what they believe is true, whether it is political or religious.

2

Were is their copy of
"Uncle Adolf's teach yourself hate speak and how to use it properly"
Or
"Grandpa Vlad's do it yourself guide to impaling uppity plebeians"
Or
"Nice Mr. Epstein, Humpty Trumpty and the charming Prince on the private island of amazing adventures"

3

It is brainwashing. They should just let kids be kids.

4

The number of socialists in the USA is minuscule, and none of them are in power. The Republican moral panic about socialism is just as dumb as all moral panics, people freaking out about something that literally doesn't exist. I guess that's what you have to do when you have no policies, plans, ideas to address the nation's actual problems now that 40 years of slashing the taxes of the rich didn't magically fix them.

There are thousands and thousands of Socialists and Liberals in the USA, they just would never think to call themselves by those names. This is because those epithets have been completely redefined and demonized by those who fear them.
Socialism is as socialism does and demands, it does not matter what you call it.

3

I don't know about these books. But I do agree there is a lot of early political indoctrination going on.

At the mere mention of "Socialism" ears clamp shut, eyes get covered (or vice versa) to the point that mentioning that Socialism can be implemented just as poorly as Capitalism can has no impact whatsoever.

I does seem that returning to the days of "the company store" are nigh.

2

Trash

3

They may not all be awful. The ones about the golden rule and education may be benign or even good, and encouraging people to become entrepreneurs also isn't necessarily a bad thing. The problem is that some of the other books clearly have a dangerous bias, but the way to deal with that is for other people to write better books that counter them, and not just by applying the opposite bias, but by being neutral and systematically dismantling the bad arguments in the biased books.

2

No it is actually highly inappropriate.

3

Make sure this is not what you are against. We need programs that help all the people, and yes, I am a Progressive.

3

The only thing children should be taught about politics is how our government works. No religion, no party politics. When I was in school this was done and TV carried appropriate commercials about it also. I hear it has been abandoned now. No wonder 70 plus million people claim that Trump won when he simply did not get the votes.

But I go to this site and the OP seems to think we are pushing Socialism at our children. What and which Socialism? Is it the one about "socialable security." Maybe it's Medicare for all. If this is what you are against you are riding the wrong train.

"The only thing children should be taught about politics is how our government works. No religion, no party politics."
I would agree. Tell small children just simple facts so that they can accommodate those simple facts within their own capacity. When you start saying "the government is stealing your grandpa's money", etc. that's no longer a fact; that is a perspective and often used as a propaganda. Also, children shouldn't be burdened with adult problems.

2

It’s not appropriate. We don’t know the effects of enforcing entire worldviews on children. By that age they can anticipate consequences for their actions. Also learn by imitation. They can imagine terrible things that can lead to fear and nightmares.
I’d be wary of exposing them to any violence of any form. I’d include tribalism as violence, personally.

Mvtt Level 7 Aug 3, 2021

One extinction rebellion activist left the group because his belief that we will all die and our planet will be destroyed soon if we don't do anything to save the environment scared his little daughter and she started having nightmares. He made the right decision for his daughter IMO. Let children have their childhoods to the fullest, and don't overload their minds with adult views, not to mention extreme views, I would say.

Isn't politics the art of making lies sound truthful and murder respectable? "It does not matter which party is elected to office because the representation of vested interests, that is, the people with money and the banks ensure that the vast majority of the electorate get screwed." Arnold Arnold

2

When I was children’s-book age, my favorite book was “Mister Dog - the dog who belonged to himself” about a dog who nobody owned - he just owned himself. I loved looking at the illustrations and the general spirit of independence and freedom expressed in the book.

So zoom ahead three-quarters of a lifetime and I spot a copy of it on eBay. Well I gots to have!

So thumbing through the pages with my adult mind, I was shocked to discover this had been conservative political propaganda all along, and admitted it boldly in italics!

But my preschool mind had no receptors for that virus, so that part of the story found no home in me. My recollection of Piaget says it’s more like eleven years of age before we are capable of abstract thought (formal operational stage thinking, in Piagetese). So I have serious doubt about the effectiveness of such attempts to woo the very young.

I think of that book as possibly the most influential one from my childhood, but the message I took from it was the rebellious spirit, and thinking for yourself. All of which made Bernie Sanders barely liberal enough for my taste.

I seriously doubt political propaganda has any effect at all, at that age. Parental role modeling and personal experience, added to genetic predisposition, will outweigh it by a mile.

skado Level 9 Aug 3, 2021

I think you are reading too much in to the word conservative, with a small c.
Margaret Wise Brown the author of many, many children's books including Goodnight Moon, was anything but Conservative (big C) being born in 1910, to her the word simply meant traditionalist.
She was a feminist, an out lesbian involved in a long term relationship with Blanche Oelrichs, the former wife of John Barrymore and a successful poet and play write herself. They were partners until Oelrichs' death in 1950.

@LenHazell53
Glad to hear it! Thanks.

@LenHazell53
You make a good point. There are conservative feminists, indeed. Also, the traditional meaning of being conservative is to 'conserve' good stuff that is functioning well for society and consider and make small changes if they are beneficial to society, as Sir Roger Scruton described. In this sense, many British conservatives are centre-right and probably different from conservatives in the US.

2

In the 1960's there was a BBC TV cartoon called Captain Pugwash. For years it was rumoured that characters had names like Seaman Stains, Master Bates and Roger the Cabin Boy. Whether or not this is/was true it was certainly a source of much humor.

[dreamingarm.wordpess.com]

The Characters do not appear in the Pugwash books, but were smuggled in to the BBC TV adaptations of the stories to piss off the then BBC director general sir Hugh Carleton-Greene. The original writer John Ryan famously sued over the claim. However, since then various clips from all three version of Pugwash (1957, 1974, 1998) have emerged. “Accidental” mispronunciations of “Master Mates” and “Seaman Willie Stains” have emerged on tapes. Even a misnaming of Tom The Cabin boy as Roger the Cabin boy (not much difference in regional English slang there anyway between the verbs to Tom and to Roger) have been shown to be in at least one episode.
Oddly, not many people actually caught on to the fact that to have one's pug washed in was in 16th century British naval slang for receiving F on M or M on M oral sex. A pugwash being the act itself.

1

Suddenly, this story becomes to look a lot more innocent.

Ryo1 Level 8 Aug 3, 2021

@Ryo1 “Reach Around Books” lol

0

Rrrrrssshaaah dingy crazy GREEDY LIMPboss radio cult liars wrote such cult books to scare children into FASCISM good Sweden BAD

1

This gives me the urge to flatulate. (Typed in an old man's voice) When I was young, my parents taught me right from wrong. If you want something, work for it. If you dream of something, act on it. If your oldest sister picks on you one time too many, kick her in the shin and when you get a wedding invitation from her that mentions 'open bar' take advantage of it.

4

Utter horseshit.

And to think, trees were killed for this garbage.
😡

3

There have been a couple of people on this site that has been touting these publications for the last year. Most have been found to be mostly propaganda and place very loose with the facts.

got an example? ty

@bbyrd009

I won't give you there names if that is what you are asking (which I don't think you are). I would have to go back and find the editions I looked at. When I have time. I'l get back to you on this.

@t1nick oh ya, i meant more like an example of propaganda or loose with the facts; an excerpt from one of the books iow

@bbyrd009

I figured. I just started back to work. when time allows I'll get back to you. As I remember the spin was pretty bad.

5

If conservatives are encouraging literacy at any age, call it a win.

4

Back to the 50s and Commie baiting.

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