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Prayer vs Science: Calling Their Bluff

VictoriaNotes 9 Apr 20
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0

This is just my opinion and I don't have the power of an imagined god to make it absolute. I see prayer as form of mental masturbation. To pray is to masturbate your own imagination to fulfill a religious fantasy. The only real benefit that comes from praying is the prayer’s own mental satisfaction. When the religious extremists pray in church you can see them get all weak in the knees and start trembling. That is when they are climaxing their religious imagination and you can see the “spirit”, which is their ecstasy, in their eyes. I avoid people that have this “I’m insane with religion and loving it ” look. They are complete spellbound, hoodwinked and possessed by their childhood indoctrination and are immature mentally which makes them dangerous. After all, everything you see is just a prop in this world to the religious (and that includes you too) for their religious test. When I was 10 and being forcefully indoctrinated as catholic 24x7 I didn't even think my own mother was real - she was just a prop. Who cares about the environment or anything else? Nothing has any real value to the religious because, if you believe the mythology, everything it is just a prop with no value and is no concern of yours to reach the ultimate goal of being happily alive in your mind's eye while also being dead and rotting in the ground. Religion is a curse upon our society that uses innocent unsuspecting children to propagate itself. We have to save our children from this curse using the LAW.

1

Thoughts and prayers are good for those that want to think warm thoughts and feel the need to believe, but they need to be aware that science is there as well.

1

Thoughts and prayers.

6

Let's see how closely I can quote George Carlin. "Instead of praying to god I rather wish upon a star. I know the star exists because I can see the star. And, I get the same 50% success rate!"

I have not heard that one...brillant I shall put that one in my tool box.

& by now we all know that we see stars that do not exist any more 😀

@walklightly : Well that blows George Carlin's theory. 😉 On the other hand, maybe gods don't exist anymore either. 😀

@dare2dream, gods certainly do not exist in my universe 😉

3

Have you ever performed a QUANTIFICATION TEST on prayer to see HOW WELL prayer works? Try this.

Flip a coin 20 times noting the results on a sheet of paper. You should see that you got around half the flips heads and half tails, give or take one or two. This is your control group.

Next, do the same exercise but each time you flip the coin pray for heads (or tails). Note on the paper the results of the 20 flips. Your result should show around 10/10, give or take a few.

You might say that the power of prayer worked in around 10 of the flips! But compare the results of your prayer group with your control group. The prayer group did NO BETTER than random chance as shown in the control group.

There is your power of prayer.

I'll play devils advocate here or more appropiatly theist advocate.

  1. You had sin in your life which procluded your prayers from being answered
  2. You did not believe enough
  3. You did not pray hard enough
  4. It was not Gods will
  5. You shold not test God so it did not work

Don't mess with a former fundamentalist, we have all the excuses as to why prayers don't work down pat....really this was off he top of my head, being indoctrinatd into a cult, as a child, is like mustle memory.

@DavidLaDeau : You're right, David. Theists answers, 1 though 5, all have a false premise. 🙂 They begin with the belief that their imaginary friend in the sky is real. From there, they can make up lots of things. Theism defies science and reasoning.

@DavidLaDeau : You must be a good debater! You know both sides of the argument.

1

What gets me is when the dr wants to pray with me/ no thanks!

1

I'll pray for you

For me?... Well then, I'll eat some chocolate for you.

Huh? That won't do me any good.

No, but like your praying, it will make me feel a whole lot better about things.

F£%$^& Atheist

2

James Randi recounted a fun story in "The Faith Healers." Ernet Angley was talking to the mother of a young cancer survivor. She told him that he was better after he saw Angley. The aluminum cast toupee televangelist got very excited: proof of his worth as a faith healer!

The mother went on: He got a cancer treatment and it's in remission, but he felt sick to his stimach. After he saw you he felt much better." Good old Ernie's face fell right to the floor at that point.

Ernest was a trip. "Say bahaaaaaby."

2

Why do hospitals have Chaplains?

I don't know -- I guess it brings comfort to the family but appears to do more harm than good for patients who had coronary bypass surgery. In a landmark study they found:

CONCLUSION

"Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications."

[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

*"Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.

Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation."*

[nytimes.com]

From the Knights Hospitaller, hence hospital. Religious hospitals

Because people will grasp at straws when threated, no matter how illogical.

I became an Atheist minister in part so I could help some friends by protecting them from predatory religious types. I don't care what their beliefs are, maybe they want to talk about different ideas of the afterlife, or how they feel, I'm there to listen and talk and read from a book if they prefer.

3

"prayer" meant "wish" when the KJV was being translated

as for needing medicine, let food by thy medicine imo, but that's a diff subject anyway

1

I wonder how much this actually bothers your average clinician? I'd think it'd get pretty old. But maybe they're inured to it.

Someone mentioned a few weeks ago on this site that their surgeon came into the prep room just before they put him under for surgery and without preamble, said, "let's pray" so I suppose that's the other side of the coin: how many clinicians think god is directing them in their work? Patients thinking god is guiding the doctor on their behalf is annoying, sure -- but the doctor buying into that is more than a little scary ...

doesn't bother me

1

Never bothers me. I don't feel that powerful and take all the help I can get placebo or not

See study I posted.

@VictoriaNotes My comment is a response to the image of a ?doctor acting in a hateful manner to someone who has a belief different than his., not whether I would recommend intercessory prayer for someone or not. If someone made a comment like that to me I would just accept it. Therapeutic alliance/relationship is just as important as the medical therapy offered. The debate about if prayer is effective or not is not appropriate at the bedside. Some other time, some other place maybe, and probably with someone besides that person's physician.When someone complains about a doctor a lot of that is focussed on lack of empathy or failure in the personal relationship, perceived or real.

@btroje Fair enough. It wasn't intended to be taken literally, but to make a point about how many believers devalue science until their life is on the line.

@VictoriaNotes I think we see human frailty in a different way

@btroje This cartoon wasn't about human frailty. I was in a situation as a believer where I was told (pressured) that praying would heal my daughter, and I lacked faith by not believing god would heal her. The very act of going to the hospital was some kind of testing of my faith. Had I not taken her to the doctor she would have died. This attitude about prayer and the devaluing of doctors, medicine, and science is far more common than many people may realize. Please understand that this cartoon was not advocating that a doctor be cruel to a patient. It was satire.

@VictoriaNotes It is one image but every viewer has their own perspective. I respect your experience and it was awful. The image doesnt look that similar to that experience to me Peace

@btroje The image was to make a point, and my experience was to make a point. You took the image literally. I'm sorry that happened and I will be more careful in future when I post satire to clarify that it's satirical. Take care.

4

Such a pet peeve of mine!

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