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10 3

Why Americans are hated?

"This study reveals that U.S. military forces were directly responsible for about 10 to 15 million deaths during the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the two Iraq Wars. The Korean War also includes Chinese deaths while the Vietnam War also includes fatalities in Cambodia and Laos.
The American public probably is not aware of these numbers and knows even less about the proxy wars for which the United States is also responsible. In the latter wars there were between nine and 14 million deaths in Afghanistan, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo, East Timor, Guatemala, Indonesia, Pakistan and Sudan.
But the victims are not just from big nations or one part of the world. The remaining deaths were in smaller ones which constitute over half the total number of nations. Virtually all parts of the world have been the target of U.S. intervention.
The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.""

Even more telling is the probability that for every US caused death there are ten people left permanently wounded.

[fort-russ.com]

FrayedBear 9 Oct 3
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2

Simply more proof we need to stop being the world's policeman. Hell, we can't even police our own country. That said, I would also add we need to stop being the world's social worker. Again, our own country is so screwed up we need to clean house first before looking to other houses the clean (or demolish).

2

Whoa! Check your sources or your logic.

In the Korean War, the Americans, Brits, Dutch, So Koreans, Turks and others who took part in killing Chinese did not ask the Chinese to intervene. The Chinese are responsible for Chinese deaths.

Also, correct your click-bait headline. Ask why you hate Americans. Or say you get grumpy every month at about this time.

Tom click bait introduction perhaps but it is a question and it garners far greater response than simply presenting the information in the quote & link.
It is up to you as to whether you read & comprehend the linked information & even more dependent on your energy as to whether you reply.
I appreciate your amelioration of hate to grumpy. Is there really a calendar correlation? The thought is intriguing & if thrown in as a joke very successful, if real a psychosis to be examined!

"The results only served this narrative well. With North Korean leader Kim Il-Sung having failed to capture South Korea and been outwitted by MacArthur through the Incheon Landing, the UN forces invaded North Korea and then tried to extend the conflict into China, ignoring Beijing’s warnings." - seems contrary to American propaganda that the Chinese involvement was unprovoked.

The runaway success of a Korean War movie blockbuster perfectly captures China’s national mood amid rising tensions with the US [rt.com]

@FrayedBear Please provide evidence that the UN forces tried to extend the conflict into China, beyond North Korea’s boundary. Something more than the meme “American propaganda”.

@yvilletom more than a meme - a whole movie.

One thing that the current US belligerence is achieving is the unification & strenghening of Chinese opinion against America.
In the case of N.Korea the article clearly states that the conflict was tried to be extended into China & the USA and its allies ended up with bloody noses having been driven back by a peasant army.
It's no longer a peasant army!

@FrayedBear Having skimmed the article, I see no point in replying to it or to your claims. Despite the many millions of deaths, the earth's population is still increasing.

1

The only war American had won, was the Mexican War. They took half of America landmass from the Mexican, When they booted millions of Mexican off their land. Then called them illegal aliens. Like they were from outer space

Considering the state of Texass it seem doubtful we even won that war. Perhaps we should give it back to Mexico.

@JackPedigo

The bow and arrow was king until the Texan Ranger's had well developed six shooters.
Mexican didn't know what hit them.

Too late, corporationism own it, it's going to take the whole 99% to wake up and to beat them

@Castlepaloma Problem is the fault was made by Mexico. Those areas were sparsely settled and the Mexican (remember it was the Spanish that pushed the native aside and settled the area) invited Gringos to the areas as a way of encouraging development. In the end the settlers wanted to form a government of it's own and rebelled against Mexico. Found an interesting piece on Santa Anna. [history.com]

1

I would be surprised if our foreign policy created hatred of everyday Americans. I think it's more likely the result of actual personal experiences with obnoxious individuals.

Granted our military industrial complex has caused millions of deaths but many countries joined forces to help us do a lot of that. I'm sure you're right with it comes to the countries that have been decimated by our wars in the Middle East.

The ugly American has been around for decades. The Nouveau Rich were the first Americans to travel the world and they were often braggarts and generally rude.

When I went to Egypt on a Nile Cruise. I booked it through a British travel company because it was cheaper to start from England and the exchange rate was very favorable. My girlfriend and I were the only Americans on the whole ship. We had the pleasure of experiencing Brits from all walks of life and with many different temperaments. Some of them were just as obnoxious as any redneck bragging American I've ever met. Most of them were lovely. I think it's common for people to remember outstanding unpleasantness more than ordinary interactions.

I cannot disagree with you that all nationalities have ugly unpleasant members.
However I cannot agree that because America has had a number of allies in creating the atrocities that it has been responsible for it does not mean that those allies were unaminously for that action. USA is a gross bully on the international stage & anyone would be hard pressed to find any case where the people purportedly being "rescued" actually benefitted.

2

You forget to mention "and her allies".

See response to Lorajay above.

Overview. According to the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), an alien is an individual who does not have U.S. citizenship and is not a U.S. national. The INA defines a national of the United States as one who, while not a citizen, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.

US Corp is a corporation, not of a country, Mexican are true Americans more so than the Europeans who settled there and invaded. They created the greatest genocide in human history.

3

I use to think it was just the military industrial complex and many of our elected officials that engendered so much hatred. Not so sure anymore, I find the arrogance, ignorance, etc. of trump voters something that has always been there and his being placed in the White House brought it out in the open.

Never seen in such state like the US at ground Zero. Plus, around the world, where people were more in conflicts and divided since Biden appeared and it will get much worst. Presidents keep getting worst.

@Castlepaloma It actually started under Obama. The tone of the local AM Talk Radio station got really ugly when Obama was elected. If you read the little people, the ones who suffered most during the 2005-2008 recession in little red neck places you could see the results of newt's evil contract with America coming to fruition. To me trump and the division was no surprise.

4

I keep my loathing for the American class and power structure -- effectuated by the Military industrial Complex, and its corrupt binary political party system and other structures -- rather than Americans who, many of them, are victims themselves, politically, socially and economically of the system under which they live. Your point is right however: the track record of the US Military post WW2 is appalling, and what's more astonishing is they show a singular inability to learn from their mistakes, with repeated mistakes blundering into a country, getting into a quagmire, and ultimately wasting billions, causing vast deaths and then leaving with their tails between their legs saying 'we must learn from this' although the next time someone stamps on their foot in they go into yet another quagmire. Again, it goes back to a corrupt power and class structure and its political apparatus. Since the trend line for the US is seemingly on the path towards authoritarianism one can hardly feel sanguine about the future.

0

Which makes us no different from the former USSR and now Putin's Russia, other than we don't generally send political dissenters to the gulag. Maybe that's why we don't hear more about casualties in the Soviet's proxy wars, and Afghanistan, and now Ukraine and other former republics....

We're mainly hated because we get involved in things, as the West's leading (only) superpower. & let us note that if it hadn't been for our involvement in the Korean War, there would not be a South Korea today.

I'll be happy to debate all the areas we fucked up, but that was not one of them. Nor was the first Gulf War. It's my country, I'm the only one who gets to properly hate and love it.

Tell that to those killed or maimed by your colonialist piracy. You are so far gone that I wonder if you will ever overcome your guilty projection & cognitive dissonance.

@FrayedBear You mean, tell the North Koreans who invaded? Or the Chinese who jined in because they didn't want their allies to fall? Or tell the millions of South Koreans who are free today, and not worshiping Kim Jong Il as a god? Or did you mean, tell all the Kuwaitis who were not incorporated as Iraq's 19th province?

Like I said, we're the West's only superpower, so when others can't defend themselves, sometimes we step up. Not often enough (I still regret that we didn't intervene in Rwanda).

I'm also willing to admit our mistakes and times when our leaders just downright lied. But you have a very obvious bias against crediting America with doing any good. (You've also forgotten who defended Australia against the Japanese when the British Empire couldn't. Not that I blame the British, they had troubles of their own.)

@Paul4747 how disingenuous of you. If it hadnt been, as in other cases, for the fact that USA insisted on dividing Korea into north & south & then in 1948 to declare the cold war against USSR the reunification may never have been necessary.
Your rhetoric Paul was perfectly described by the N.American First Nations who had their land stolen from them "white man talk with forked tongue".

"The results only served this narrative well. With North Korean leader Kim Il-Sung having failed to capture South Korea and been outwitted by MacArthur through the Incheon Landing, the UN forces invaded North Korea and then tried to extend the conflict into China, ignoring Beijing’s warnings." - seems contrary to American propaganda that the Chinese involvement was unprovoked.

The runaway success of a Korean War movie blockbuster perfectly captures China’s national mood amid rising tensions with the US [rt.com]

2

How many died fighting Adolf and his buddies? Not saying that fascists are a good thing, just that any corporatocracy is a fascist state and the body count is going to pile up fast.

50 million Russians, to start with. The victims of the concentration camps. The villages that were razed because of partisan resistance in the general area, to make an example. Lidice. I could go on. America really got off pretty light in that war, comparatively speaking.

@Paul4747 WWI and WWII when you really think about it - they called it Isolationism but it was more about waiting around like vultures until both sides had largely finished each other off and then picking up the spoils. Very clever, monkeys and it made America an empire.

America took its time coming into WWII & only when it was realised that it could better further its piratical colonial ambitions by defeating Japan & its ally Germany.

@FrayedBear Have you ever read a history book? Japan had already established an imperial enclave in China, when they decided they could not part with their imperial ambitions and bombed Pearl Harbor, not to mention most of the West and South Pacific region. Prior to that, the US aided Britain in every way short of war... because we had not been attacked, there was little public support for going to war against Germany until December '41, when they declared war on us.

Seriously, now I can't tell if you're a troll or just uneducated.

@SnowyOwl America prior to the 1950s was slow to go to a European war, because of our isolated position in the world map. After, we made a commitment tomaintain a presence there with our allies.

Yes, we had the Monroe Doctrine, and all the awful effects from it in this hemisphere. But the fact that there was bad, doesn't negate the good.

@FrayedBear Granted, Canada and Australia and other Commonwealth Nations threw in their people as Colonial Cannon Fodder for King and Country. People are stupid, generally speaking.

@Paul4747 The people least likely to be killed in a war are Very Rich People.

@SnowyOwl I don't think American WWII deaths even got to 500,000. C19 has been more effective.

@Paul4747 lol, you are sadly indictrinated with the spin that you were fed. You should talk to more non Americans & obtain their opinion of America playing both sides of the conflict for their own profit.
Have you read such things as [historycollection.com]
And [huffpost.com]
Just for starters.
As for Hitler declaring war first he merely formalised what he saw as being inevitable following Pearl Harbour & the reality of the Atlantic war already occurring v
US destroyers escorting American supply vessels bound for the UK were already engaged in an undeclared de facto war with German U-boats.[2] Roosevelt's desire to help the UK, despite the objections of the influential US isolationist lobby, and legal impediments imposed by Congress which prevented direct involvement in the war, brought the US to push hard against the traditional boundaries of neutrality
[en.m.wikipedia.org]

Perhaps you should consider your patriotic refusal to accept the real history.

@Paul4747 how about you go to "Out Of The Illusion ", run an enquiry in the group on WWII and then read & cognitively absorb the information contained in all the posts that come up rather than dismiss them because they contradict your indoctinated belief?

@FrayedBear

Largest ethnic group in the US are Germans. The wealthy Germany in the US and in Germany attempt to own the world Yet it all backfired and only time American fought another predominantly whites nation was because it was American job to own the world. American Bragg about the world would all be speaking German if it wasn't for there under half million deaths. Guess what Russia lost 26million. Don't think we would be speaking Russia, because too much work went into making English the business language.
Same people are back at it with Nasi covid world order normal the next third world war. They alright spend more money on covid war than the second world war as an investment to own the world again. Of course in about the same time frame as 2nd world war, the wealthy will loose it again. This time worst than before of hidden deaths and destruction.

[washingtonpost.com]

@Castlepaloma I think I posted a similar article in "Out Of The Illusion " not long ago.

@FrayedBear

Then I think you know alot about world history more than most. As I have been a history duff since an annoying child in history class. To building many historical museum displays from dinosaurs to outer space projects.

@Castlepaloma My knowledge is very selective however I hope that I can change my opinion if presented with plausible refutation.

@Castlepaloma model building sounds a fascinating occupation. Apart from once 20 years ago I haven't model built since early teenage years - probably lacking the patience or incentive.

@FrayedBear
My whole arts and entertainment industries are so dead, right now.
Although new doors of Tiny house communities and urban farming business is my adventures and more important.

@Castlepaloma What is "new doors of Tiny house" please - i understand the tiny house concept but havent encountered "new doors" before.
I lived in my own tiny house 14'x8'x6' high for 6 years off grid - the back end of an ex school bus.

@FrayedBear

I'm manufacturing affordable to 90% of the population and healthy portable design for more grey area of legistics made of mostly free wood milled and aircrete. Good thing you got something you can move around in during the apocalypse.

@Castlepaloma Are you familiar with Nader Khalili's work on ecodomes? Since you are working with recycled wood and lightweight concrete this could be an interesting option for you.

@SnowyOwl

Out of 9 houses built, did an aircrete dome without any kind of armature. Enjoy them as center kitchen or washroom part of tiny house community. Community is actually more important than food which all of it comes together.

@Castlepaloma haven't lived in it since 2003 when I was run over by a hit & run. It hasn't run for 10 years.

@FrayedBear

My tiny houses are designed to be towed anywhere in the province for $300, you can do the same for your bus if need be. The adverage house owner moves every tens years and spend $50,000 re hook up. One can buy Two of my tiny houses fully design with off grid system of heat cooking and electrical. Plus avoid building two tiny houses for my Banker who I don't know, so I can get a loan for one of my own.

@Castlepaloma the trouble these days is finding somewhere to be that is reasonably priced. I'm also 25 years older & nowhere near as strong as I used to be. I will only go back to the old life if forced to. I currently live in a reasonably sized villa a few 100 metres from the town centre, have a car & when not in lockdown look after other's houses & pets whilst they have a holiday.

@FrayedBear

Stay where you are, what your doing is fashionable when hell on earth shit show happens. Then after a couple of years things will get much better.

@Castlepaloma I hope so.

2

Biden should open American Goodwill Centers all around the world to give away free education seminars, scholarships, books, magazines, college catalogs, watch documentaries in its theaters, give away children toys, American diplomats go to colleges and TV interviews to begin the brainwash to do away all the ill will we created..... just like the Soviets did to its satellite states for 70 years.

I was taught in school that if America had given each Vietnamese person $500 before the start of the war there, then they would have saved $billions, obtained the good wishes of the Vietnamese people who would have then rejected communism. America through its awful proselytising xtian evangelists is alread out there trying to indoctrinate the world with their radio stations, videos & books. On top of that American ideas, surplus, inferior, unwanted or subsidised products have been dumped around the world to further rub salt into the wounds.
We don't need more crap from USA.

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