Bodies. The OP mentions people having control over their bodies.

Not all Republicans are religious. This is the fault of the Republicans...

Wow. Even if that were true, why should that mean they should be denied autonomy?

@JeffMurray I'm playing shit stirrer whilst pointing out that giving them authority won't help because everyone is failing to understand that many of them are unable to control themselves particularly in the fields that I mention so do they merit what @freedom41 suggests?

@FrayedBear Are you asking if women deserve bodily autonomy?

@JeffMurray no I'm saying they already have it but many are too stupid to know it.

@FrayedBear How do they have it? There are tons of restrictions on abortion in every state in the US and most, if not all countries around the world.

@JeffMurray you are still missing it Jeff - if they keep their knees together, despite what was claimed in Mary's case, they cannot get pregnant. Total absolute unequivocal control of their bodies.

@FrayedBear That may just be the most sexist and wrong statement of the year.

1. Rape
2. Accidents/ failed birth control
3. Deformities that prompt or even require abortion
4. Change of other circumstances that changes a wanted pregnancy to an unwanted pregnancy
5. Your argument is claiming women can have control over their bodies only by removing sexual control/choice over their bodies. Argument self-defeated.

Wow, @FrayedBear! Misogyny much? First you try to make a post about women all about men instead, and then you victim blame. Good grief!

@Deb57 I didn't make the post, freedom41 did. I replied with questions about the veracity of a statement in her post whilst making valid observations on reality. That you have screamed mysogeny suggests to me that you're trying to protect your mind through projection & in the claim of victim blame simple cognitive dissonance.

@JeffMurray 1,2 & 4 are covered in my statement "in most cases". 3 results in natural abortion of the foetus which happens in about 25% of all pregnancies. Sadly in some parts of the world largely thanks to ignorent men & the catholic & muslim religions there are women in jail for supposedly murdering their children when in fact they have naturally aborted. However deformity is a risk in life far less now than deformity occurring through motor accidents, lifestyles - like today refusing to have covid vax, german measles or tetanus vax - are you suggesting that those deformed from these causes all have their lives terminated?
As for 5. If you don't want to do the time don't do the "crime" - masturbation is not a crime & there are many ways of having sex with no risk of pregnancy. It's only the stupid who can't think of them.

@FrayedBear Just because you say "most cases" doesn't change the fact that your claim of, "Total absolute unequivocal control of their bodies" is completely false. You can't have total control except in the cases when you don't. Would you drop your dog off at a kennel that said they would never rape your dog... except for they days they do?
You are completely wrong about #3. Ectopic pregnancies can be life threatening and absolutely could require abortion. Anencephaly would also be a condition that wouldn't result in spontaneous abortion. Also, the frequency at which these things happen is completely irrelevant. You claimed that women have have "total absolute unequivocal control of their bodies," so if there is even one woman that doesn't, for any of the reasons I listed and any others I didn't, it disproves your misogynistic, hateful, nonsensical claims.
And your attempt at equivocating a severe deformity of a fetus who's depending on and endangering the life of its host to a self-sufficient human who had an accident is probably the most asinine argument you've made in this thread so far.
5. So you're now claiming that stupid people aren't allowed to have control over their bodies? That wasn't a parameter you mentioned at the beginning. The fact of the matter is your argument is still self-defeating because if stupid women exist then there are women who could only have control by giving up control.

We've agreed on a lot of stuff, and we've disagreed before, but honestly this is the worst argument you've ever made. I implore you to reevaluate.

@JeffMurray There you go again "ectopic pregnancies" do not happen, unless you are the virgin mary, if you are not inseminated.

@FrayedBear Which you can be, from rape. Is that really the only thing you have to hang your argument on? You can't refute anything I've said? Rape exists. It has since the dawn of man, and there is no indication it will ever go away before life ceases to exist. So if you don't have an argument that's not easily and completely destroyed by the fact that rape exists, then you picked a really shitty, indefensible position.

@FrayedBear I was responding to your comment, in which you commandeered the issue to make it about about male circumcision and then blamed women for their own pregnancies. Cognitive dissonance my ass.

@Deb57 What are you doing then?
It certainly isn't convincing me or changing my opinion?

@FrayedBear it looks like I'm pointing out how manipulative you're being, doesn't it? Pretty sure it wouldn't be possible to convince you of anything or get you to change your opinion. That doesn't mean you're not wrong, though.

@JeffMurray Where do I condone rape?

It seems however that you condone murder if you believe all pregnancies arising from rape have right to termination simply because of the rape. You cannot rectify a wrong with another.

@Deb57 I suggest that you are projecting & being disingenuous. I repeat women have control over their bodies. They only have to keep their legs closed.
Rape like being hit by a drunken motorist is something that you cannot control. However that does not guve you the right to take revenge on the rapist by murdering his progeny.
Do you have a right to murder the supporters of Trump? According to what I read, his policies, according to many of you, resulted in you being raped either financially or in the C19 response through the loss of your lives. I read threats that it is going to happen again in 2024.

@FrayedBear First, I didn't say you condone rape, I said your argument is easily defeated because rape exists. Your claim is that women have 100% compete control and autonomy because 'all they have to do is keep their knees together'. The fact that there was probably a woman being raped while you made that horribly misogynistic, completely illogical argument highlights how wrong and stupid your argument was.

Second, your claim that you can't fix a wrong with another wrong has two fundamental flaws. A. The platitude, 'two wrongs don't make a right' isn't based on anything and isn't logically or empirically true. It is very easy to theorize a second wrong that would right a first wrong. B. You are assuming an abortion is a 'wrong'. Are you basing that on anything other than your personal feelings?

Third, the statement, "that does not guve [sic] you the right to take revenge on the rapist by murdering his progeny" also has two problems. A. It has nothing to do with revenge, it's about not having to be forced to carry a baby you didn't want. B. It absolutely does give you the right to terminate the pregnancy, and here's why...

You awaken after a drunken night out to find yourself in bed with a famous soccer player. He has a fatal blood infection, and his fan club has discovered that you have the right antibodies to cure him. They have kidnapped you, and connected your blood supplies together so your immune system can fight his infection. If he's surgically disconnected from you he will die, but if he stays connected to you for 9 months before being separated, he will live. Does the soccer player have rights to your body making you obliged to stay connected to him for 9 months regardless of what you want?

This scenario is fundamentally identical to a rape/ pregnancy in regards to forcing a woman to carry the rapist's baby to term. Do you believe that the soccer player has a claim to your body?

Finally, your scenario about Trump supporters is not in any way analogous. I can't even dignify it by attempting to surmise what you think the parallels are and showing why they're wrong.

@FrayedBear if you are comparing terminating a pregnancy to murdering a Trump supporter, you are being absurd. Ultimately a woman has to have the final say in what happens to her own body. To deny her this would be the same as the government telling you that you have no choice but to donate one of your kidneys to the guy across town, because without it he will die.

@Deb57 Nonsense. Very few pre planned abortions occur because a woman's life is in medical danger. You simply wish to rationalise murder just as you probably absolved yourself from barbarically circumcising your sons. To turn your own argument on yourself & use the Jewish excuse you state that boys not of an age to competently decide to irrevocably mutilate part of their largest organ do so, according to Jewish rationale, to prevent women from getting cervical cancer.
Also why don't you do similar to girls & cut their mammary glands off so they won't get breast cancer?

@Deb57 Notice he can't logically refute anything I'm saying and thus, has failed to respond to my arguments and now failed to respond at all.

@JeffMurray it may be that I have better things to do.

@FrayedBear bottom line: I should be allowed to decide what to do about all parts of my body whether YOU think I'm murdering somebody or not. If you want the final decision about what happens to the uterus, ask the person who owns the damn uterus. You don't get a say.

@FrayedBear Nope, it's obviously not that; you're still drafting responses to Deb.

@Deb57 Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

@JeffMurray No Jeff. My sleep & other things are given preference over trying to break through your cognitive dissonance, lack of comprehension, lack of education or ignorant selfishness. I'm not paid to do it.

@FrayedBear Ha ha ha ha. Everyone here knows none of that is the reason you're not responding to my comments. The only reason is that you do not have a logical rebuttal.

@JeffMurray The rebuttal is simple "do unto yourself & fellow countrymen & women what you have advocated in abortion for the "rapes'' perpetrated around the world by the wars, sanctions & forced subversion of other countries' governments and people.

And you Jeff have not responded to the point that

1. Rape conceptions are few in number compared to non rape conceptions
2. Rape abortions are few in number compared to all abortions
3. if rape is a crime, the murder of the resulting progeny is a more heinous crime. You cannot rectify one crime with another worse crime. A crime that is committed against a totally innocent being. The crimes of the parent are not supposed to be inherited by the children.

@FrayedBear I have responded. The number is IRRELEVANT. I don't care if abortions from rape are one in a billion, if your policy prevents even a single woman from removing a rapist's fetus from their body, I'm against it. Period. You already agreed that the soccer player has no greater claim to your body than you do, so now you're just arguing with yourself... and outing yourself as a misogynistic asshole in the process.

@JeffMurray And you continue to identify yourself as another American supporter of the murder of innocent people.

@FrayedBear If by people you mean parasitic fetuses then yes, I fully support it. And I'd much rather be outed as a supporter of women's reproductive rights than a cunty, misogynistic asshole like you.