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17 1

Drug users

Since drugs, illegal guns and human trafficking have some of the worst effects on modern society. Why are we doing so little to solve these problems.

20 years ago, my countries police officers were the #1 drug sellers on the streets. They never directly sold drugs, they just took part of the "evidence" from a drug bust and gave it to their friends who would (With police protection and consent) deal drugs in broad daylight.

Since we cannot rely on the police (as an organisation) to uphold justice or protect our lives, what alternative is there?

I think that we need a systematic purge. No more light punishments. Innocent people are getting caught in the crossfire. Gang shootings, acid attacks, home invasions.
Scum is scum and we as a society need to wake up to it before it's too late.
I propose the death penalty for all drug dealers no matter the age or circumstance. Why should we have pity or mercy for drug dealers who ruin hundreds of lives just for money. They sell death and yet we do nothing significant to stop them. Put them in prison? You mean give them a bed, gym, 3 meals a day, water, clothing, wash their laundry? Are you kidding?

Russian prison should be the ideal goal for all prisons. Keep the prisoners skinny, if they don't like the food then leave them go hungry, keep then working 12 hour shifts per day. Make them pay for their food and board. Not the taxpayers.

Any drug dealers with legitimate evidence and confession should be executed in public by the government. To deter others from making the same mistake.

Lancer 7 Dec 2
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17 comments

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0

We don't wake up one morning saying hey I want to be a drug addict. Negative things happen in people's lives and when you experience drugs the negative feels and for that matter any other feelings negative or possitive don't matter any more. Plus Mental Health and Addiction go hand in hand. If haveing a Mental Health issue and say experience cocaine or pot or any other illegal drugs you feel better. Being hard on people that suffer with Addiction is not the answer. If someone in your life became an addict would you still think the same of them by having them punished.

0

We don't wake up one morning saying hey I want to be a drug addict. Negative things happen in people's lives and when you experience drugs the negative feels and for that matter any other thing negative or possitive don't matter any more. Plus mental health and addiction go hand in hand. If have amentzl health issue and you say experience cocaine or pot or any other illegal drugs you feel better. Being hard on people that suffer with addiction is not the answer. If someone in your life becsme an addict would still think the same of them by having them punished.

The problem is, users usually get their friends involved and now instead of ruining your own life you're ruining 20 lives. The friends and their families will never be the same again.

1

I’m in favor of giving a lot of first time offenders another chance but if they persists in they’re criminal activity execute them! We shouldn’t have criminals with long rap sheets.

I wouldn't go so far as execution only because there's always a chance someone like a corrupt judge would abuse that sentence. I'd be more open to labor like say digging irrigation ditches along roads, picking up rubbish in parks, cleaning up graffiti, etc.

That way we can get some use out of them, they can work to earn their food, clothes, medical care, shelter, etc. Turn the lawless into a workforce, like a business venture. You don't work, you don't eat. Also if we ever wrongly convict someone, we can just release them and pay them for the time they lost.

1

Deterrence doesn't work well. The punishment you propose doesn't fit the crime. If anything, the war on drugs needs to end by making them legal so they start being regulated and taxed like at a liquor store or a pharmacy. Most drugs aren't as bad as the legal ones. Marijuana is particularly safe.

Fair enough. I'm in favour of legislation of drugs. But I want a special administrative zone to be created where they can be sold & used recreationally.

If people want them for parties then they'll need a permit.

Just make the detrimental effects of drugs aware then let the people do as they wish. Within reason. Drugs & driving will obviously be a no tolerance thing. Just like drunk driving.

3

Studies show that about 3% of people are drug addicts. In societies that do not criminalize drug use, about 3% of people are addicts. In societies that strictly punish drug use, about 3% of people are addicts. That is to say, laws and penalties do not prevent drug abuse.
Meanwhile, we have major problems with our criminal justice system. People with life or death sentences are routinely exonerated by DNA evidence. It is clear that minorities are disproportionately targeted by drug enforcement, are convicted of drug crimes at higher rates (once accused, than whites) and are routinely sentenced more harshly when convicted.
All of this is to say that harsher drug laws and enforcement of drug laws tends to have very little impact on the problem of drug abuse, but exacerbates other problems we have in our society.
Another issue - one of the most common traits among serious drug addicts is having experienced significant childhood trauma/abuse. Rather than spend our dollars going after the consequence, I propose we spend our dollars addressing the root cause.

1

The "REAL" reason drugs are outlawed in most countries is because the drug/euphoria experience rivals the "high" created by people who tickle their pleasure center buy buying "things.) If a pill can make me feel just as happy (or, god forbid, happier) than I would from buying a new big screen TV, then the big TV manufacturers are going to have a vested interest in seeing to it that drugs which replicate euphoria induced by retail consumption are illegal.

2

I find it hard to point the finger of blame at ANYONE who provides and/or uses drugs to those who feel they need/desire them. It is certainly asinine to place someone behind bars (often for many years." ) simply because they ingested certain psychoactive chemicals

3

As someone who is fascinated by psychopharm (and who researches it heavily) this whole thread is like...wat. We need a greater level of education pretaining the mind-altering substances...pretty much everywhere, and drug policies that reflect scientific information instead of "morals", "feelings", corporate interest, and fear of cultural change.

5

I despise your stance . if you legalise everything then deal with addiction as a mental health issue. you take away the huge profit levels. grass coke and opium cost the same as coffee to produce. it is the PROFIT that causes the crime . to alter one's state of consciousness is your own wish PERIOD

So if you remove the profit then we remove the incentive for crime. What's the problem?

@Lancer If you think criminalizing something removes the profit, you don't seem to understand how the world works. Have you ever heard of prohibition?

No. I think legalising it removes the profit. I didn't make hat clear, sorry, my bad.

I just think that if we legalise it then we will be able to create a quality control. Because most drug dealers are selling impure products, they test them by selling them.

If we legalise it and produce it using controls. Then it will be safer for consumers.
If we legislate it within reason then we will make it safer for law abiding citizens.

3

Something that I haven't see in this very interesting post is our country's long history of using military presence and covert intelligence operations being funded by the most lucrative cash business ever created; drugs. Iran-Contra Affair, smuggling in military coffins, Noriega in Panama.

Afghanistan is administered something like as a tribal federation. Local tribal leaders, war loads and poppy farmers are all on our payroll. We have paid billions of dollars in cash to the very people who are growing, protecting and profiting from heroin. Soldiers had videos of pallets of cash wrapped in plastic. Truckloads of cash

Even after we invaded Afghanistan poppy production increased and 90% of the world's opium processed into heroin is grown in Afghanistan. We have occupied Afghanistan for over 16 years and during that time heroin addiction is rising here and poppy production and processing and money laundering thrive.

That's a very interesting point. The drug trade seems to be as lively as ever. The only time drug users cut back is if they run out of money. And if they do run out of money the they just mug people or steal from homes. My city's ICE usage dropped by 60% and the police took credit for it when in actuality my city is experiencing an economic catastrophe on par with an economic depression. Businesses are going broke, mines are shutting down, engineers are losing their jobs among other workers. It's a mess.

4

Any conversations about drugs that begin with the premise that all drugs are the same and that all drugs are bad cannot be a fruitful exchange of ideas. Alcohol, nicotine and legally prescribed opiates are the deadliest drug problems, right NOW, if we are being honest.

Illegal guns are not the problem, either. That we are unable, as a people, to have rational, reasoned discussions or debates about how best to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our property is a national failing.

Human trafficking is the accepted term for what is largely the sexual slavery of girls and women. There are many people living as "indentured servants" laboring in businesses and homes but the most biggest, most appalling and despicable part of this international industry is selling women and girls as sex slaves. Millions of women. It is so vast and entrenched as to draw comparisons to American importation of slaves from West Africa and the Caribbean and aspects of the Holocaust.

The flood of women reporting sexual abuse is becoming a tsunami and it must be used to raise awareness and change hearts and minds because this is a male problem. Women do not create the demand that drives the market creating sex slaves; men do. Many men are predators, some are sex addicts but most men have very strong sex drive and some can't handle regardless of maturity and restraint.

So, my feelings on this final issue places the burden on men and all non-religious types to drive sex, prostitution, human trafficking into daylight in discussions, debates and posts. Morality, law and certainly religion don't provide effective influence to control or effect sexual violence or sexual behavior so lets have a go at sexuality and gender enlightenment. Maybe separate posts?

That seems reasonable.

1

If I start killing people for their crimes I will deserve the fate I am issuing. There are drug dealers that deserve death. There are also drug dealers that deserve love. For decades my dealer was my best friend.

That's why I said in my comment with my actual opinion. I don't want to fix society, I believe that if there are people who want to do drugs, sell drugs and kill people. I find nothing wrong with that, as long as they don't affect me.

There could be someone in front of me doing drugs and as long as they don't come over to me then it's fine.

I would love to fix the world but I don't have the answers so I am trying to fix me as well as I can with the high mileage parts I'm working with. Getting clean and sober was a monumental task. Some can use in moderation. Moderation never suited me

0

To be honest, this isn't my real opinion. I believe that all drugs should be legalized in "special administration zones" in every country. It'll give people a place where they can waste their money and become worse off financially but I don't judge. Allowing people to slowly kill themselves is a magnificent freedom for all of mankind and I can accept that we are all different.
In the special administration zone where drugs are legal to buy and use it will allow people to overdose on one area. Removing the threat they pose to the rest of society.

If anyone outside the zone is caught doing drugs then charge them, give them a fair trial and if found guilty 3 times then execute them. That's fair. In AFL (Australian Football League) you have to be caught 3 times before they kick you out. We even had an entire team encouraged to do drugs. Now these league players are role models but I don't really care what they do. If you're a role model to kids that doesn't mean you have to be a good one.

Now if we did have a special administration zone then it would be easier for paramedics to be on standby (why save law abiding tax payers?) so they can ship the over dosed users straight to a hospital to recieve treatment (for self inflicted illness, basically suicide). I mean why would we want to reduce the strain on the medical system? No reason right. forget the law abiding citizens, who really cares about the decent people of the world.

I agree politicians, bankers, etc. are scum but they will always have a roughly 50/50 ratio. We need politicians to run our countries because we can't self govern ourselves, we are too stupid for that.

I just wanted to hear other peoples opinions is all.

but in the AFL, when you get kicked out, they also don't shoot you to death (I assume. that would be one hardcore sport). you can take the money you've earned (I assume it's paid) and do something else with your life.

Generally the drugs in AFL end up screwing with the players gameplay and family life. They don't just take performance enhancing drugs, they also by recreational drugs with their pay.

I personally don't like the sport because so many players have been involved with drugs. At least 2 people have used drugs and jumped out a 5+ story window because the thought they could fly. Their lives ended because of their own choices. Which i believe is fine, they used their freedom the way they wanted. I just think that if we as a society continue down this drug addicted path of self destruction. We will not only kill ourselves but also innocent bystanders. That's what I'm concerned with.

Also yes they don't shoot them but that's why things need to change. We need stricter laws. We can never eliminate the supply for drugs unless we eliminate the demand. That's what I'm hoping the special administration zone would do. Compress the addicts so they don't hurt others.

Most drug users don't die from using them. That is a fallacy.

@Atheopagan Sure only a handful of them die from drug use, but think of the lives they affect. People doing drugs cause huge amounts of mental stress on their families and friends. Parents can wonder what they did wrong, spouses can suffer abuse and kids can be forever scarred. It's not the death of the drug user that matters, it's the life they lead up until their death. That is what matters.

0

Your idea of dealing with drug dealers is way more suitable for the government officials and political leaders of the United States who are dealers in weapons/finance/pharmaceutical/propaganda products, because they are damaging the world way more than any drugs and their dealers.

I don't like politicians anymore than the next guy. But we have to acknowledge that without the politicians, we wouldn't have a government, we'd have anarchy in the streets.

We need politicians no matter how much we hate them. But we don't need drug dealers.
Also it's human nature to wage wars. We need happiness and suffering to a degree, it is impossible for everyone to be happy in this world.

I do think we need to get some better quality politicians but politicians come from the people. So we need to fix the people before we try to fix the government.

I do hope that you count yourself among the 'people' who need to be 'fixed'.

Not particularly. I'm a well mannered, respectful, intelligent and driven person who treats people with respect and courtesy. Yes I have a handful of opinions which are seen as extreme but they all have a logical origin.

I'm talking about the kinds of people who bullied my sister when I was a kid, who attacked my friend in the street and shashed his head with a brick when he was 5, the people who were racist to me, the people who tried to kill my father and I just for having more money than them.

Do you really think I need to be fixed? I'm a pacifist, I detest violence and always seek a peaceful resolution through engaging in dialect.

However when I see people who would do me and my loved ones harm. The people who want to destroy our society, undermine our progress. I have no problem with killing those scum.

4

Sounds like Duterte of the Philippine's war on drugs… A tuff call.. I see you’re in the UK, is it that bad?! I’m new to Appalachia here in the US, drug use appears more of an escape from endemic poverty and social boredom than a serious money maker; it seems more user driven. And for the most part, I believe our law enforcement actually does attempt to extinguish it…

Varn Level 8 Dec 2, 2017

It's bad everywhere. I'm mainly concerned with Australia. In my city approximately 60% of tradespeople go to work with some kind of illicit substance in their system. That's too high.
2 tilers working for my dad in out house were so high that they started doing the tiles (rectangular) long ways and side ways. They met in the middle after wasting 60% of the tiles which cost a lot of money. They didn't even offer to repay my dad for the material they wasted.

Also the main problem is the quality of people. Most societies have only about 10% high quality people who come from all classes of life. They were raised properly by their parents, but the vast majority grow up to be inconsiderate, rude, violent, stupid, selfish and greedy. This is the main root cause of the problem.

Part of it is just our culture which fails to punish criminals effectively. The australian prison system is a good example. If you're a woman and you kill someone, you go to a women's only prison with your own room, kitchen, en suite, free food, gym, library, internet access, free childcare. That is unacceptable. There are more and more people in my city committing crimes so they can get into prison and all of these luxuries for free.

Paid for by the law abiding, hard working tax payers. It's legal theft. It encourages crime instead of deterring it.

I’ve not seen any numbers lately, but have long thought that Australia is one of the ‘least churched’ countries of all - and admired that! Though, wondering to myself ... without the fear of punishment from a god -- what keeps the average idiots from taking down society? I suppose it needs to be the fear of incarceration. But if as you describe, lock-up becomes a comfortable alternative to a responsible life … what then?

I don't know to be honest. I suppose what will happen is that as more and more low earners decide to live in jail or live off social welfare. The rich who's taxes will only increase, will move to other countries. The social welfare will collapse, government and policing will be underfunded and it might get so bad that martial law will be implemented.
But that's not likely for the next few decades, I hope.

Australia as a whole is a beautiful country, it's just misguided. We have the resources, the manpower, the opportunity. But we are restricted by criminal activities, drugs, corruption and sadly excessive restrictive legislation.

We could've been even greater than America in it's golden age. But we squandered and fought over the gift we were given.

We aren't a very religious country, not to say that we don't have a lot of Christians and Muslims. There were 5 churches and 2 mosques within 10 km of my house, plus I used to go to church on Saturday morning when I was young and it was always full.

We have a culture of passive relaxed actions. I remember driving along a narrow 80 km/h road and there was a guy riding a bike with no shirt, no helmet, sun glasses and smoking a cigarette. It was odd.

But the Australian people are generally quite relaxed and nice. But the younger generation is becoming quite social media-centric but that's the same as America and the UK.

Wow, seems we’re headed to the same place, only coming from different directions… Over here, we’re cutting taxes on the rich, so nothing’s left to maintain the poor. The rich can flee to any of their off-shore residences, while society in general disintegrates…

I look to Mexico as a template for ‘America’s’ future: an elite ruling class, peasant poor, no middle class, just economic extremes within a dysfunctional one-party system… With their poverty over-flow valve long having lead to the US, I’ve no idea where our people will flee if/ when conditions reach Mexico’s level of deprivation and corruption?

6

I disagree and would oppose any such draconian measures. Once you accept such punishment for drug dealers, many of whom are coerced or outright forced by others, it's easy to accept that other criminals can be executed, abused, etc., and the bar for evidence becomes lower and lower.

4

I disagree. We should be trying to reform people and give them an opportunity to do better at life when they get out, not just doing away with "scum". And aside from some seriously troubled people who are statistical outliers, a don't think there exist truly evil people in the world. That's just a way we rationalize our own mistreatment of other human beings that we just don't understand and won't attempt to understand. If we did, they'd be too much like us and we'd all feel bad.

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