Pardon me, but my question was not, to my mind, pointless. Maybe you misunderstood it.

@MajesticHero Condescention because I refuse to be baited is unattractive at best

All is illusion? Are you saying there is no such thing as… Reality? As to the rest of your reply, I don’t know what you mean by the self being a wave particle, only existing within the wave. I do know a fair amount about physics; However, I still would like you to explain what you meant by saying it, (“we may have a self as a wave particle but does exist only within the wave.&ldquo Please help me to understand what you are trying to say.

@MajesticHero

@rainmanjr Say what?!

@rainmanjr He he!

I probably picked up the term from reading a lot of Alan Watts, my favorite philosopher. By the term “independent self“ I believe he meant some sort of center of action within our organism, allowing us to act independently of everything else in the universe. That is, allowing us free will, in the sense of being able to initiate action as beings somehow separate from all other being, that is, somehow separate from the rest of reality, that is, the rest of nature, if indeed we can save ourselves as “part” of nature, and not ultimately, Spirit, other, or “beyond” the natural realm. I don’t know if that clarifies or confuses, but let me know either way.

@MajesticHero Your concept of th independent self is metaphysical mumbo-jimbo. We are within and a part of the universe, and will never be completely free of it.

@wordywalt that was actually what I was trying to say, Except I would maybe add that there is no “we” in the sense of separate ego selves to be “free” of “it” in the sense of… The universe.

I would suggest doing away with this “Cartesian“ split between mind and body, and think of ourselves rather as psycho Dash Physical organisms. So instead of either/or, we should think in terms of both/and, when it comes to the body and the mind. Think psycho-physical. Or even better, Think of minds and bodies as… continuous with one another… naturalistically, as different ways of looking at ONE THING, the organism behaving itself as organism do. Only the first way is sort of from the outside, and the other way is feeling what it’s like to actually BE the organism, that is, feeling it from the INSIDE so to speak. I don’t know if this helps or if it lines up simply confusing the matter. Please let me know either way.

Another way of putting that might be, “is the world in your head? Or is your head in the world?“ To which it would appear the only good answer is… Both.

Just as it would appear that we are psycho-Physical organisms and that what we call consciousness is… Continuous with… Our nervous systems, As well as… The world in which they are imbedded. Curious to hear your reply…