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Pesticides are not only killing the birds but humans now & probably in the future... Just look at Cambodia and Vietnam& the effect of wanton use of the exfolient agent orange..

About 385 million cases of PESTICIDE POISONING occur worldwide
every year. People in the Global South working in rural areas are
particularly affected.

Many people in the Global South have gone into debt
to buy expensive means of production. Due to high profit
margins and insufficient government regulation, the trade
in illicit pesticides has increased over recent years. And the
sale of counterfeit pesticides has become a profi table business as well: In the first four months of 2020, illegal pesticides worth up to 94 million euros were seized in the EU
band six other non-EU countries such as Colombia, Switzerland and the USA. The use of such pesticides puts farmers
at particular risk because the ingredients and their concentrations may be misstated or misrepresented – making
their effects and toxicity unpredictable.
Pesticides do not stay where they have been applied.
They contaminate the environment and contribute to
an imbalance in the ecosystem. New research shows that
pesticides even contribute to pollution with microplastics
when active ingredients are intentionally encapsulated for
slower release. A key challenge for governments is to inform farmers worldwide about the dangers of pesticides, to
take measures to protect them and to enable manageable
crop protection alternatives to chemical pest control. Ideas
on how this could work abound, although research in topics such as ecologically-based pest management remains
The global pesticide market is growing. South America and
Africa are among the markets with the highest growth rates –
but differ largely in current use and application rate.


FrayedBear 9 Dec 2

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Agent Orange killed people that I knew. Not immediately but it was the cause of their death later.

And it still is. A few years ago I met an Oz serviceman who had been contaminated by something used in jet fuel tanks that had resulted in his body becoming intolerant to just about all modern products. He couldn't live in a house, work in an office or shop and so lived in the back of a 1 ton van & worked loading trucks at the local depot.
Haven't seen him for 3 or 4 years. I bought him a device for washing his clothes in that largely worked by pressure forcing water through the clothes. Sadly never saw him again so whether he moved on or died I don't know. Can't remember what I did with the washer. Helluva decent chap though.

I bet they're not classed as casualties of "friendly fire" nor their deaths attributed to war.

@FrayedBear OK I'll bet you and you will lose.

My cousin was in Viet Nam and was exposed to Agent Orange. Years later (in 2004) he was diagnosed with a type of cancer and the Air Force said it was due to his exposure in Viet Nam. The Air Force paid for all his medical and hospital expenses. He died in 2012.

@Alienbeing This same thing happened to a couple of people that I knew also.

@Alienbeing in which case why has the USA not been tried for war crimes at the Hague in inflicting genocide on the Cambodian & Vietnamese people? And has USA paid them any compensation yet? Is it still paying - the effects are still apparent.

I'm happy to lose the bet. I didn't stipulate the size of the wager though.

@Alienbeing Also pleased to learn that you were not alone on this planet & had a cousin, uncle-aunt!

@FrayedBear The example I gave already made you lose the debt.

@Alienbeing the loss of the bet I acknowledged.

@FrayedBear You make no sense....... what a surprise!

@Alienbeing a gambling debt has to have quantum.
It reads like you are projecting again.

@FrayedBear You REALLY need to learn what projection is, or maybe your meds cloud your thinking ability.

@Alienbeing you talk of not making sense referring to a debt - I've not incurred debt because quantum was not stated nor agreed upon. Therefore you are projecting your failure to make sense onto me.

@FrayedBear You make no sense. My reply referenced your condinued (and always wrong) reference to "projection". I made no reference to debt, and for your information I have no debt.

@Alienbeing i attach screenshot of this thread & have circled in red your creation of debt instead of rhetorical "bet"

@FrayedBear Where did you attach it? Do you have short term memory issues?


Who still uses Agent Orange?

That is not under consideration. The amount used by the US military in Cambodia & Vietnam is still harming those people.
I have not read of the US compensating Vietnamese civilians nor Cambodians for the effect of exposure. Compensation is paid to service people who served in Vietnam. They however were not exposed to the poison for as long as the Vietnamese & Cambodian citizens who have now had about 60 years of it.

Here is a list of ailments srising in adults & children from exposure to the chemical -
Vietnam veterans who have been diagnosed with a long list of health conditions and diseases, which are considered presumptive conditions as a result of Agent Orange exposure, are eligible for disability benefits. The conditions are:

AL amyloidosis
Bladder cancer
Chronic B-cell leukemias
Chloracne (or similar acneform disease)
Diabetes Mellitus Type 2
Hodgkin’s Disease
Ischemic Heart Disease
Monoclonal gammopathies
Multiple myeloma
Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma
Parkinson’s Disease and Parkinson’s-like symptoms (Parkinsonism)
Peripheral Neuropathy, Early-Onset
Porphyria cutanea tarda
Prostate Cancer
Respiratory Cancers
Soft tissue sarcomas

Spina bifida is the only birth defect related to Agent Orange exposure in male veterans that the VA recognizes. The list is much longer for children of female Vietnam veterans.

The VA recognizes that children born to female veterans who served in Vietnam have a higher incidence of birth defects, but it does not attribute these conditions to Agent Orange exposure.

Disability benefits are available to children with the following birth defects whose mothers served during the Vietnam War:

Cleft lip or palate
Hip dysplasia
Congenital heart disease
Esophageal and intestinal atresia
Fused digits (syndactyly)
Pyloric stenosis
Neural tube defects
Hallerman-Streiff syndrome
Poland syndrome
Williams syndrome
Imperforate anus
Tracheoesophageal fistula
Hirschsprung’s disease
Undescended testicle
Both the female veteran and her child are eligible for benefits. Once again, the VA does not connect these birth defects to Agent Orange, and these conditions are not eligible to a veteran’s grandchildren.

And undoubtedly the amount given in compensation will thanks to ungrateful politicians & greedy lawyers be inadequate.


They may no longer be actively using agent orange but there are nearly 400 proven hazardous chemicals being sprayed worldwide & more than 1000 not fully tested or proven to be harmful.

@FrayedBear Yes Agent Orange was a mistake.

@Alienbeing And are the Vietnamese & Cambodians being compensated?
Is USA charged for its war crime of using it to affect civilians who can no longer use the land and are still having birth defects caused by it?

@FrayedBear No

@FrayedBear I'm not sure we used it to affect civilians. At the time of Agent Orange our military would spray in on themselves in training on how to use it. This was to show that it was "completely safe" but later we learned that it was not.

@DenoPenno I'm reminded of the fool of a British minister who at the height of the mad cow disease outbreak had his young daughter filmed eating a beef burger!

Are you going to also claim that the millions of land & sea mines left strewn across the planet were likewise not intended to harm civilians? That's why they were just left there?

@FrayedBear Who left those mines?

@Alienbeing they are still finding WWI mines. You name a country that has been at war and I'll point the finger.

@FrayedBear Try to answer the question. Give an example.

@Alienbeing mines are still found in the English channel. On landmines you could help support the causes removing land mines by donating to pay for the work - []


The following is 2010 information:
"The following facts reflect the seriousness of this problem:
It is estimated that there are 110 million land mines in the ground right now. An equal amount is in stockpiles waiting to be planted or destroyed.
Mines cost between $3 and $30, but the cost of removing them is $300 to $1000.
The cost of removing all existing mines would be $50- to $100-billion.
According to the ‘International Campaign to Ban Landmines network’, more than 4,200 people, of whom 42% are children, have been falling victim to landmines and ERWs annually in many of the countries affected by war or in post-conflict situations around the world.
According to Landmine Monitor, number of landmine and UXO casualties was 11,700 in 2002 and 4286 in 2011.
Mines kill or maim more than 5,000 people annually.
Mine and explosive remnant of war casualties occur in every region of the world, causing an estimated 15,000 – 20,000 injuries each year.
One deminer is killed and two injured for every 5000 successfully removed mines.
Overall, about 85 per cent of reported land mine casualties are men, many of whom are soldiers. However, in some regions, 30 per cent of the victims are women.
Mines create millions of refugees or internally displaced people
The areas most affected by land mines include: Egypt (23 million, mostly in border regions); Angola (9-15 million); Iran (16 million); Afghanistan (about 10 million); Iraq (10 million); China (10 million); Cambodia (up to 10 million); Mozambique (about 2 million); Bosnia (2-3 million); Croatia (2 million); Somalia (up to 2 million in the North); Eritrea (1 million); and Sudan (1 million). Egypt, Angola, and Iran account for more than 85 per cent of the total number of mine-related casualties in the world each year.
Until recently, about 100 000 mines were being removed, and about two million more were planted each year.
If demining efforts remain about the same as they are now, and no new mines are laid, it will still take 1100 years to get rid of all the world’s active land mines.
For the military, mine detection rates of 80% are accepted since all the military needs are a quick breach in a minefield. For humanitarian mine clearing it is obvious that the system must have a detection rate approaching the perfection of 99.6%.
The most common injury associated with land mines is loss of one or more limbs. In the United States, the rate of amputation is 1 for every 22 000 people. In Angola, it is 30 for every 10 000.
In many of the most affected areas of the world, agriculture is the mainstay of the economy. Land mines are planted in fields, forests, around wells, water sources, and hydroelectric installations, making these unusable, or usable only at great risk. Both Afghanistan and Cambodia could double their agricultural production if land mines were eliminated."

It's a pity that you didn't learn to do your own investigation.

@FrayedBear If you think anything you say would cause me to do my own investigation you are truly clueless. Nothing you ever posted had enough credibility to warrant a search. You are easily corrected without any research.

Regarding your land mine or sea mine issues....... was this news to you?

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