Agnostic.com

20 2

At what point should a believer admit they don't actually believe in their religion?

Hear me out. I have a friend who is Catholic. However, once you start a conversation with him about his faith he begins to point out that he doesn't believe in many of the fundamental teachings of his faith.
Examples: Doesn't believe in the virgin birth. Doesn't believe Jesus was raised from the dead. Doesn't believe Jesus raised people from the dead. Doesn't believe in the creation of man. Doesn't believe in the great flood. Doesn't believe in water turning into wine, etc.
At what point can someone pick apart their religion so much that it seems pointless to claim a belief in that religion?

BlueEyesDallasTX 5 May 4
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

20 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

Ask him what he does believe in.

If he can tell you, the next step is to ask how he justifies his belief - what is it that makes him believe and how can he verify that his belief is true.
Ask him why he doesn't believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection etc., but mostly get him to explain his beliefs using the same logic.

Softly, softly does it.

0

I honestly think that there are some people who say they are religious because they don't want to be ostracized from their families and peer groups. This is the problem when religion gets a hold of a society or culture. These are the last people who want to defend a faith they don't hold with any conviction

He comes from a very Catholic background. He doesn't go to church regularly but it is important for him to go on Easter and Christmas. I don't understand why he doesn't think he should go every Sunday then. I don't know how his family would react if he ever turned away from faith.

1

When they are honest enough with themselves to realise that having joined up all the dots they are left with only one conclusion

I completely agree with you. That's why I don't believe anymore either. I don't see how people who also believe in science, which he does, can also believe in a virgin birth. Or turning water into wine, making rivers turn into blood, all of the world's animals fitting on a boat and surviving a flood.... The list goes on as you know...

1

‘God is dead. It just takes a while to move the body’

― Yuval Noah Harari, Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow

I'm adding that to my next audio book list. Just finished 'Sapien' today. It was great.

@BlueEyesDallasTX Yeah, I audiobook'd them. It is more of the same but with a view to the future. Mentions a few of my Heroes early on (Ray, Kurzweil, Aubrey de Grey etc.) which was welcome. I think everyone should read these books.

1

He's practicualy an atheist. He just has to admit it to himself.

2

Chances are he is no longer a believer but for reasons of his own has not officially announced. Possibly those reasons may include family or friends that he does not want to alienate.

2

A lot of people are afraid of what their life would be like without faith/belief in god. Perhaps he doesn't truly believe, but is just lost as to what his life would be like with his Catholic identity.

This seems like a more likely answer if only because I can relate. I was a Christian for 25 years. It took about a year for me to get over the fear of turning away from my religion (including eternal damnation) and allowing myself to be free and believe in what science says. The great thing about science is that it can continually be proved wrong, it gets rewritten, and things move forward. Religion is stuck in a book based on the limited knowledge available at the time. Fear of eternal hell is real. It's a great motivator to believe. It takes guts and strength, in my opinion, to leave religion.

1

Evidence based rational thinking is a recovery tool.

1

Sounds a lot like whoever wrote Mark, and also Paul himself.

1

Cardinal George Pell, the highest ranking Christian from Oz, has stated that Genesis, Garden of Eden etc is a myth not meant to be taken literally. So whence comes the original sin for which they have always wanted to punish us. So, the Bible begins false, so based on such a dodgy foundation?
They continue to say they believe out of fear, even afraid to admit to themselves.

I also believe it is fear that keeps people in religion.

1

Religious people almost always reject the bits that do not suit them. Only the most puritanical adhere to the literal word of their preferred holy book ( and 50% of those are hypocritical). They are mostly concerned with imposing restrictions on others and forgiving their own faults. ?

1

It is much like any other relationship, people stay in it because they know it and people expect it of them. People are afraid to step out of their norm and see what is outside of the hell that surrounds them.

1

It sound like he talking his way out if religion he starting to see it more as a story then truth. Now it may be because of family why he hasnt completely come out as an atheist.

3

One can stop believing in fantasy, when the age of reason sets in.

0

When they're about to die? but no , about 8 years old would do

0

Perhaps he only believes in the individuals who were mentioned in the holy babble?

1

There comes a point when a person realizes that all of these religions have one unifying factor...and that is to placate and control by fear. There are rules and lists of things to do or not to do to insure your place in the after life. For me, the hypocrisy slammed me in the face and I was able to let go. I agree with the statement that he'll come to it when he's ready.

3

If you no longer believe, it is no longer your religion.

Yes, but obviously he's just there for the community--the sense of belonging--as are many in church communities all around the world.

@2askjoe Fellowship is not religious. We all need it. I think, for most people, going to church is not about the religious shit. It is about all the really good stuff. I do enjoy a large church with choir and organ. The catholic services using latin, and burning incense are fun. AAnd so on. But my comment still stands.

6

Cognitive dissonance is an amazingly resilient psychological state. My advice is to leave it be. He’ll come to it when he’s ready.

. . . or he may not. But either way, it's completely up to him.

@2askjoe Indeed.

2

There are SO MANY types and levels of religion these days, you could pick and choose one that suits your needs easily...there's always some biblical justification, real or imagined.
Back when I was a "believer," I was all or nothing for me. You either believed ALL of it or NONE of it...I chose none... 🙂

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:73507
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.