And you can legally murder it any time for another how many weeks of gestation?

So you never did study biology then did you?...

@Lizard_of_Ahaz about what? Point life happens?

@FrayedBear That as well as the deception in the top picture.... That is actually a shrimp.
Tell you what if you right to birthers want to outlaw abortion I am sure we can work a deal all you have to do is pay for all the unwanted children your policies cause to be born instead of sticking everyone else with the bill....

@Lizard_of_Ahaz No. Stop being a selfishpratt. If you can't do the time keep your legs shut or your dick in your pants. Try taking responsibility & require it of others. Those who refuse to parent & pay for their children should have to serve mandated work camp sentences to pay for the children so that they are not a burden on everyone else.

@FrayedBear I am not the "selfish pratt"that would be the entire pro-birther movement who constantly vote Republican because they want control over what others see, do, and believe. They are the same stupid people who want to cut the social safety net and force people to have children they don't want or can't afford. I guess in their minds it is better to have a child born to starve. For one thing even birth control is not 100% effective and another some women get raped so a selfish pratt like you would force a 14 year old girl who was raped by her drunken father to have a defective child right?

@1EarthLovingGal A basic necessity? Which one is that?

@1EarthLovingGal There is a simple answer to all your medical cannots & those who do not want children - it's called sterilization.

@Lizard_of_Ahaz Do you also advocate eugenics?
I advocate that drunken rapist incestuous fathers be incarcerated in work camps for the rest of their lives.

@FrayedBear You're beginning to sound a lot like Hitler (He believed in work camps, eugenics, sterilization, and forcing women to have babies) .... I have a suggestion if you don't believe abortion is right just don't have one... Leave other people out of your fascist mindset.

@FrayedBear Congratulations you posted a forum that indulges in far right-wing delusional thinking.... Most of the batshit I saw at a glance was little different from the neo-Nazi chat rooms...

@FrayedBear
Can you murder a mass of cells that is not conscious?
If so, then tumors and cancer have a "right to life".

@AtheistInNC they don't contain brains and to say that a foetus is not conscious is not true. They can feel and hear to say nothing of moving under their own volition.

@AtheistInNC When did you last carry a foetus in your womb?

@Lizard_of_Ahaz Stick with your memes, some I find funny as in humourous.

@FrayedBear To use your own rhetoric "When was the last time you carried a foetus in your womb?..."

@1EarthLovingGal "quit trying to control women’s lives" - there you have it in a nutshell - you are so arrogantly concerned with your ego that you cannot comprehend that the abortion is you playing "god" and controlling a defenseless foetus's life. As for not getting a sterilisation if another can easily persuade you out of it you are not worth knowing. Nice talking. Thank you for your weak worthless opinion.

@1EarthLovingGal Your response is all the more laughable for invoking your own deity. Their is no god other than the one that you have created & accepted between your ears. Do not blame me for your gender's failure to address the problem. Until then "if you can't do the time don't do the crime."

@1EarthLovingGal Aha, "the king demands the cat not to look at him"! LMAO ROFL. Hon - an abbreviation for Honourable - at least you display rudimentary cognitive skill.

@FrayedBear you are incorrect when you say "They can feel and hear to say nothing of moving under their own volition." I call bullshit (up until mid third trimester or so). Your ignorance is glaring in your assertions, and is the root cause of most religious arguments (you claim to be agnostic, but with this argument, I doubt it). It should never have been called "abortion", but rather "blastula removal" so fucktards like you don't get your panties in a twist. Also, since you aren't a woman, you shouldn't argue with @1EarthLovingGal about women's rights to their own body and its functions. Doing so makes you a cunt.

Here is an article where scientists have created heart cells from stem cells - and the cells beat like a heart. Did they create a life? NO. [popsci.com]

Some male corpses can get erections - are they still alive? NO. [en.wikipedia.org]

Dead disembodied frog legs can move by applying salt. The salt causes the already removed frog legs to twitch because salt increases the electrical conductivity (electrolyte balance and sodium channel conductivity), discharging some electrical potential which signals the muscles to twitch. Are the disembodied frog legs alive? NO.

Some liquids (oobleck) behave like solids under certain circumstances. Is it magick? Are they alive? [tinyurl.com] NO.

You can't explain any of this because you are an uneducated. However, your Dunning-Kruger ability makes you talk about things you have no idea what is really going on, and you when you open your mouth on these subjects, you look like an animated pile of dog poop doing so.

All of the functions you mention are from the autonomic nervous system which don't happen from conscious thought. The autonomic nervous system functions to regulate the body's unconscious actions. Blobs of cells do not have cognitive functions, although they may move around like dead frog legs. Some blobs may finally achieve consciousness (if they grow in the uterus) but they don't think and feel until they are viable. I'm sorry that your lack of education causes you to have thoughts that are incorrect. Maybe you should become a doctor before you start spouting stupid shit about patient care. You would rather see children abused, live in poverty and die of malnutrition than allow the mother to remove a cancer in her uterus (which is legal in all 50 states here in America, anyway - you list yourself living in Australia, so YMMV).

You are a vile, horrendous, putrid mass of merde that really should go live in a cave, far far away from humans (note that i didn't say "other humans" because you apparently lack empathy, which real humans contain). Please stop using this site because you are not one of us, you are obviously religious, and you constantly spout religiously vile zealotry under the guise of "agnosticism".

@AtheistInNC Your mouth frothing would be worth reading if you could actually write without your losing your rationality. Did you enjoy your venting?
I really could not give a rat's dropping for your opinion & pseudo proof.
My daughter was born at 28 weeks fully formed. She was not the youngest by any means. One beatiful little child was 23 or 4 weeks gestation. My daughter is now nearly 40. Her uncle, a WWII vet similarly born preterm lived into his mid 70's.
You probably will not read the following but I will reproduce it so others can.
"The U.S. is among these 7 countries that permit elective abortion past 20 weeks.xi This is true whether 20 weeks is measured from the last menstrual period (gestational age), conception, or implantation. No matter how duration of pregnancy is measured, whether by gestational age or conception or fertilization, or implantation, all countries in this category pass the 20-week threshold. These countries/territories are:
Canada (no restriction in law)xii
China (no restriction in law)xiii
Netherlands (24 weeks)
North Korea (no restriction in law)
Singapore (24 weeks)
United States (viability) 9
Vietnam (no restriction in law) xiv
The United States is within the top 4% of most permissive abortion policies in the world ( 7 out of 198 ) when analyzing restrictions on elective abortion based on duration of pregnancy.

[lozierinstitute.org]
Because it is law does not make it best practice. Nor does not caring for those who should be cared for (unwanted children) as is recommended by you with your "children abused, live in poverty and die of malnutrition" remark. Where is your empathy that you alow this to happen in America?

You also have a wonderful habit in America of circumcising male children, you are probably one yourself and being cursing your mommy & daddy for failing to protect your integrity when you couldn't do it for yourself. I feel sorry for you that you were betrayed at such an early age. It sounds like your military indoctrination & misinformation has well & truly corrupted your ability.

With attitude like yours you will probably be dead before long. My only hope is that it will be quick & painless but I doubt it.

@FrayedBear I should have known you would be thinking of my penis. Nice. I don't know why you brought that up in an women's rights discussion, but hey, you have your thoughts about dick and I can't stop them. Hate to disappoint, but I am intact. So think about that and wank off. It's big and thick too, if that helps you get off.

You say 'pseudo proof' but offer no counter argument, so I'll assume I am right, and you are still a cunt. Offering up so called preemie births is shit without proof. I had a daughter born at two weeks and she lived to be 100. See? Easy.

And actually, I don't believe in a 'right to life' I believe that a blastula lives at the whim of the woman who has conceived it. If she doesn't want it, then out it comes. Until it is viable, it is not alive. And any preemie born is still developing and the only reason it continues to live is because machines keep it alive. It is not viable. Do I agree that one should not abort? If your circumstances allow you to keep it, then no, abortion is probably not the choice for you. However, everyone's life is not easy and you seem to have all the answers when they don't affect you. Maybe you should try living with a dad who rapes you over and over again until you get pregnant, and then see if you want to keep a child that will remind you every day of the horror that was your childhood.

If I ran the U.S., there wouldn't be the waste and wanton disregard for human life like there is, but I don't. And you are correct - just because it is law doesn't make it right. However, until you offer to spend 9 months of your life hooked to a dialysis machine so someone else can live using your kidneys, you have no right to sentence someone else to do so. Women are humans as well, which you seem to not understand, but your misogynistic attitude is pathetic as you tell others they are shit for doing the best they can in the situation they are in.

Once again, stop hiding behind the veil of "agnostic' on this site. You are obviously religious, and need to leave this site, since this is for the non-religious folks. Your type is not wanted here.

@AtheistInNC Now you start to confess your imperfections. You keep raising incestuosly conceived through rape children, is that because you are one or that is what you did to your daughter?
As for having a foreskin congratulations you are extremely rare in USA. Of course your saying that you have one is not proof.
Misogyny is a religion, LMAO, you seppos get more & more insanely deluded. I see that you proudly claim to be a 2nd Armoured Division Vet - was that when it was playing at soldiering in Germany? I can't believe that Russian interogators were needed in the Persian Gulf / Iraq wars when the US used the depleted uranium shells. Over the years how many abortions have been created in how many countries by US genocidal & mysogenist practice.
It Sounds to me like your big fat penis has well & truly fucked your arrogant inhumane brain.
I am delighted that you have taken the trouble to call me a cunt. Everyone irrespective of gender living in Australia is a cunt just as every American is a seppo.
You really should get over your religious belief that you are a legend in your own rusty lunch box. I suggest that you are a pathetic socio- or psychopath who needs to stop pretending but become a real humane person with empathy toward the victims of your inhumanity. Your current behaviour and beliefs are very Marxist communistic (look up the 1928 Frankfurt School manifest on how to grow communism in Western countries + the rewarding of victimisers & punishment of victims).
I see that you have now taken to stalking me. Enjoy yourself but as you obviously are so dumb that you don't realise that I'm here to entertain fellow site members you are more likely to give yourself apoplexy.