I don't agree about his style, infact he is reluctance to listen to many of Labours members, now a majority of them calling for ref 2 or just stopping brexit. and personally, I dislike the strong leader idea, I prefer concensus and all it's messiness. Never been a follower

@Savage I don’t like the need for strong, ruthless leadership, but I believe we’re up against human nature here. There will always be someone(s) who will try to undermine/stab in the back even a consensual decision. I’m afraid that pragmatism in these matters is, at this stage of our species’ development, the only way we can achieve, politically, our agendas. Many on the right, and a good few on the extreme left, plainly do not believe in democracy, or have a restricted view of it - that is, it’s only for people who believe the same as us, are the same as us, and/or is only for the powerful. And many of those people are the ones who really hold and wield sub-democratic power over the rest of us. Pragmatism points to the neccesity of fighting fire with fire.

You couldn't be more wrong, where have you been not to hear about the tax evasion regs coming in just after we supposedly brexit. look it up. Try under Real reason for brexit. And I just did it for you [globalresearch.ca]

@Savage Luxemburg?

@CeliaVL Ok well if you had been in the UK it would have been hard not have seen something about the tax evasion reasons behind brexit. Hopefully the link I posted had got you up to speed

@Savage I'm afraid I was very unimpressed by your article which was largely personal opinion, much of which I would disagree with, and it was very short on facts and evidence. Spain's biggest objection to British control of Gibraltar at the moment is that it is a tax haven and money-laundering centre. I suggest you read [euractiv.com]. The EU claims that it is going to get tough on tax-dodging by major companies like Amazon, but it remains to be seen whether it will actually do anything serious, and also whether it will do anything about the dishonest corporation tax rates in some EU countires.

I am completely with you in all aspects of your post but I have not studied him for so long. His style of parliamentary thinking is so balanced and alien to other members of the house but can we wait for them to adapt ?-some never will. Brexit is on the turn and the Labour Party conference is hopefully going to make a big difference. Anti semite problems are really anti Isreal government at root.

@Mcflewster I remember as a schoolkid, watching on the telly an MP being arrested for protesting Aparthied. And thinkiing, I want to vote for someone like that. Was already wise to the self serving politics of government but JC was different. But Brexit bloody Brexit, it is nothing but a destroyer and this country will suffer if it goes ahead, just as some of us are already suffering. This is what it has cost me.

I’m thinking of emigrating to Norway! They’re not in the EU but everything else seems to be making their people very happy..

If you think there is not a lot to chose between the Labour Party and any other Party you have clearly not read the current Labour Party Manifesto. It is a centre-left programme which would bring the UK into alignment with most of the rest of Europe, rather than the Conservatives' trying to turn the UK into a bad copy of the United States. The Labour Party would raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for a programme of free education, welfare and social care, and renationalise the NHS, the railways, and ultimately the rest of the national infrastructure which the Conservatives sold off to their friends.

@CeliaVL I beg to differ from your naive idealism. Manifestoes are rarely worth the paper they're printed on -- history attests to this fact. Regarding candidate choice, no one stands out as sincere and trustworthy (after all they are politicians with a weakness towards a desire for power not the general public good). But I agree the Conservatives and their overall policies are trash!

@CeliaVL, @Marionville Norway is a beautiful country, I'm sure you would enjoy the lifestyle there.

@rcandlish Any country that produces Norse gods like my favourite band A -ha must be worth living in!

@Marionville Travelled there when I was more youthful. Took a cruise up the fjords. My thoughts were then, how much I'd like to live there! The Norwegian people that I've met have been lovely too.

@Marionville How can you say A-ha is you're favourite band. They only produced one Hit. Admittedly it was very good though!

@rcandlish I am Scottish and there is quite a strong connection with Norway in Scotland still reflected in some of the place names in the northeast. For centuries Norway ruled a large swathe of Scotland even down the west coast and all the western isles as well as Orkney and Shetland. Oslo is closer to the latter than Edinburgh. I have never visited but intend to remedy that fairly soon. I have been reading a lot about it as the SNP always use Norway as the model they would like Scotland to emulate should they ever gain independence.

@rcandlish I will admit to a degree of idealism but I don't see that as an insult. I think it is important to have ideals. Also I think I have lived long enough and spent enough time in politics myself to understand that while some people in politics are motivated by personal greed and ambition there are also a fair number who want to change things for the better. I think Jeremy Corbyn is and always has been an idealist and I think the Labour Party has changed to such an extent over the past few years that there is a fair chance of a large part of the manifesto being put into effect. Of course it will take time and people will complain that not enough is being done and promises are not being fulfilled, but I was fortunate enough to grow up in the UK when education was free, the health service was well funded and supported and I was able to start buying a decent house in my late twenties. i want my grandchildren and their fellows to have the same chances in life that I had.

@rcandlish I agree that it is a beautiful country and it is very well run. For low-paid, low-pensioned British people it is rather expensive, though.

@rcandlish Why don’t you look them up and then come back to me again. They are still performing live and at the moment are on their Summer Electric Tour which started in May. They perform all around most of the world except USA and have sold over 70 million records. They have released about a dozen albums and have a huge catalogue of original songs, They hold the the record for the largest paying audience at concert for Rock in Rio 1991....198,000, and Morten Harket their vocalist holds the record for the longest held note in popular music history at 20.4 seconds in their “Summer moved On” written by them for and performed live at the Nobel Peace Prize Concert in 1999. Morten Harket has a 4plus octave vocal range and at 59 can still reach the top notes. They are the most underrated band in history in my opinion. I am just going to sign off here now and watch them on YouTube ! My current favourite is “I Call your Name”, the saxophone on it and Morten’s low register notes are like a drug! Oh and I should have said they are also insanely good looking!

@CeliaVL The reason things have fallen apart over the last few decades is largely due to the scale of the influx of foreign migrants. The system had been built to the scale of the native population, the infrastructure could not support the new numbers.

I believe the demographic policy of preceding governments both red and blue was based on two fallacious beliefs: (1) watering down the sense of British nationality (same thing occurring simultaneously in other European nations) would reduce likelihood of future conflicts (2) the bigger the population, the bigger the economy, the bigger the economy the better for all.

I hope your ideals find reality. However, there is a long tightrope between dream and fact,

@rcandlish I thinbk that if you do a bit of fact-checking, you will find that the infrastructure would be falling even further apart without foreign immigrants.The greatest problem over the last few decades has been the lack of investment in infrastructure and the greed of the top ten percent, hence the widening gap between them and the rest of the population. What is your evidence for your demographic policy statements? I can see no reason to believe either of them.

@rcandlish What british nationality, it has always been false. I'm a Scot and that is how I refer to myself, I have never referred to myself as British, I am also European.My perfect outcome would be Scotland independence within the European club. A day I dream of.

They may be sane by comparison to the others!

Political or ego driven?

Still wish he'd change his mind though

I've always been convince Britain must Remain in the EU for our own good and the rest of the EU. I regret that Jeremy Corbyn always seesm to have been opposed to the EU, though during the Referendum campaign he did claim to be 7 our of 10 in support of Remain. My fear now is the Nigel Farage's Brexit Party which he has viritual complete control of will end up with a majority of the seats, because of his slick campaigning and the failure of the progressive parties to collaborate. The Brexit Party is particularly sinister as it has viritually no members, just no-voting supporters at £25 each and Nigel Farage as leader appoints the board. So he's dictator of his own party and refuses to publish a manifesto setting out what the party will do.