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No matter whichever paths you choose.
Donotbelieve comments on Jul 21, 2019:
"The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. An individual in ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 21, 2019:
@Donotbelieve I hope there really are some definitive truths. The only thing I know with certainty is that I know nothing with certainty, and I’m not absolutely sure about even that.
Donotbelieve comments on Jul 21, 2019:
"The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. An individual in ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 21, 2019:
@Donotbelieve I hope there really are some definitive truths. The only thing I know with certainty is that I know nothing with certainty, and I’m not absolutely sure about even that.
No matter whichever paths you choose.
Donotbelieve comments on Jul 21, 2019:
"The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. An individual in ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 21, 2019:
I expect that this Gustave Le Bon guy had his own illusions. It’s easier to see illusion in other people.
Donotbelieve comments on Jul 21, 2019:
"The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. An individual in ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 21, 2019:
I expect that this Gustave Le Bon guy had his own illusions. It’s easier to see illusion in other people.
Science, God, and the cosmos: Science both erodes (via logic) and promotes (via awe) belief in God -...
Matias comments on Jul 20, 2019:
It is always the same issue: you can "show" anything as long as you are flexible enough to make sophisticated intellectual contorsions regarding the definition of "God" (dismissing - that goes without saying! - the "mainstream" definitions).
As soon as you have established "God" as *some ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
I do not argue about the god issue. The question is just too deep and overwhelming. I will say however that the idea of a personal God who helps you might be both right and wrong, depending on perspective.
It boils down to the essence of what constitutes an individual person. If we are, as is commonly thought, nothing but our bodies, then the idea of some personal God out there who helps us is probably wrong and unscientific. While such an idea might offer solace and courage for some, there’s no way to reconcile that with all the world’s pain, guilt and fear, or with death.
I lean toward the idea that our identity as a body is illusory. If there were no conscious awareness, this conversation would not be possible. There would be no time, no space, no things. It is entirely possible that we collectively are consciousness itself. While that might sound like woo, many prominent physicists have suggested something like that.
The word “God” is probably not appropriate in this context, but this consciousness thing is not “out there” external, to be called upon for favors, it is we ourselves, our essence. In that sense there might be a “personal God”.
Matias comments on Jul 20, 2019:
It is always the same issue: you can "show" anything as long as you are flexible enough to make sophisticated intellectual contorsions regarding the definition of "God" (dismissing - that goes without saying! - the "mainstream" definitions).
As soon as you have established "God" as *some ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
I do not argue about the god issue. The question is just too deep and overwhelming. I will say however that the idea of a personal God who helps you might be both right and wrong, depending on perspective.
It boils down to the essence of what constitutes an individual person. If we are, as is commonly thought, nothing but our bodies, then the idea of some personal God out there who helps us is probably wrong and unscientific. While such an idea might offer solace and courage for some, there’s no way to reconcile that with all the world’s pain, guilt and fear, or with death.
I lean toward the idea that our identity as a body is illusory. If there were no conscious awareness, this conversation would not be possible. There would be no time, no space, no things. It is entirely possible that we collectively are consciousness itself. While that might sound like woo, many prominent physicists have suggested something like that.
The word “God” is probably not appropriate in this context, but this consciousness thing is not “out there” external, to be called upon for favors, it is we ourselves, our essence. In that sense there might be a “personal God”.
It’s interesting to me that saying anything remotely positive about religion brings accusations of...
Deiter comments on Jul 20, 2019:
It's fair to say both the faith-based and the non-belief communities are loaded with poor representatives. Religionists often put rules before compassion and for that may deserve the worst we can heap on them. But to compare the crimes of religionists to that of non-believers is simply wrong.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
Where is it said that Einstein believed in a personal God. I see it written that he did NOT believe in a personal God.
Deiter comments on Jul 20, 2019:
It's fair to say both the faith-based and the non-belief communities are loaded with poor representatives. Religionists often put rules before compassion and for that may deserve the worst we can heap on them. But to compare the crimes of religionists to that of non-believers is simply wrong.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
Where is it said that Einstein believed in a personal God. I see it written that he did NOT believe in a personal God.
God is great only when you're dumb...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
Depends on your concept of God.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@SukantoSirkar There is no scientific proof that deep conscious awareness arises from the body, and no one alive has the slightest understanding as to how such a thing could happen. It’s not called the “hard problem” for nothing. Saying that conscious awareness evolved explains nothing. The crucial point is that no one knows what it IS.
I agree that the concept of universal consciousness has not been established as truth by science, and it might never be. It is however a valid area for metaphysical speculation. Many of the most creative and celebrated physicists have espoused the concept.
I’ve never heard about some greater consciousness fueling lesser consciousnesses. There is just consciousness period, the same for everyone at all times.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
Depends on your concept of God.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@SukantoSirkar There is no scientific proof that deep conscious awareness arises from the body, and no one alive has the slightest understanding as to how such a thing could happen. It’s not called the “hard problem” for nothing. Saying that conscious awareness evolved explains nothing. The crucial point is that no one knows what it IS.
I agree that the concept of universal consciousness has not been established as truth by science, and it might never be. It is however a valid area for metaphysical speculation. Many of the most creative and celebrated physicists have espoused the concept.
I’ve never heard about some greater consciousness fueling lesser consciousnesses. There is just consciousness period, the same for everyone at all times.
What do you think the world be like with out religion?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
All you have to do to find out is visit North Korea.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@palex The Scandinavian countries and Finland are far from being religion-free—they all have Evangelical Lutherism as their state religion, and the governments give support to that religion. While church membership has declined there, that does not necessarily mean that the Scandinavians have become irreligious.
My personal opinion is that the question is moot and that everyone is and will always be religious in a certain sense. There are deep religious characteristics imbedded in our collective unconscious that affect everyone.
Maybe the question should be rephrased. “What will life be like when religious expression evolves into a more meaningful, profound and intelligent format?”
My answer is that life will be better. There’ll be greater abundance, more justice and less strife.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
All you have to do to find out is visit North Korea.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@palex The Scandinavian countries and Finland are far from being religion-free—they all have Evangelical Lutherism as their state religion, and the governments give support to that religion. While church membership has declined there, that does not necessarily mean that the Scandinavians have become irreligious.
My personal opinion is that the question is moot and that everyone is and will always be religious in a certain sense. There are deep religious characteristics imbedded in our collective unconscious that affect everyone.
Maybe the question should be rephrased. “What will life be like when religious expression evolves into a more meaningful, profound and intelligent format?”
My answer is that life will be better. There’ll be greater abundance, more justice and less strife.
What do you think the world be like with out religion?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
All you have to do to find out is visit North Korea.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@palex I get your point. North Korea is probably not the best example. However, vast areas of the earth are or have been under the control of atheists—people who do not claim to be gods, such as Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Look at “State Atheism” in Wikipedia.
One example is Mexico. You can read here about it and see the bodies of the religious hanging from power poles along a roadway.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War
My point remains. No one need wonder what life would be like under atheism.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
All you have to do to find out is visit North Korea.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@palex I get your point. North Korea is probably not the best example. However, vast areas of the earth are or have been under the control of atheists—people who do not claim to be gods, such as Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Look at “State Atheism” in Wikipedia.
One example is Mexico. You can read here about it and see the bodies of the religious hanging from power poles along a roadway.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War
My point remains. No one need wonder what life would be like under atheism.
God is great only when you're dumb...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
Depends on your concept of God.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@SukantoSirkar I’ve never thought much of the soul concept as presented by traditional Christianity. The question in my mind is “Who or what is it that has a soul?” It would make more sense to say that the body is under observation and supervision by conscious awareness. I engage in these intuitive speculations only because I see no way that conscious awareness could spring from a mass of cells, no matter how many neurons are firing. It follows that our personal identity as a body, along with the physical universe of our perception is an illusion. Those ancient Indian sages were pretty astute IMO. The same idea has been espoused by various eminent physicists.
I personally do not think in terms of magic or the supernatural. Everything is natural but we can not truly understand nature with our symbolic model of matter moving through space and time. The implications of existence are absolutely staggering when met head-on without blinders. Faith in science is a blinder. Fantasizing about gods and goddesses is a blinder. Rote belief in scripture is a blinder.
Maybe humanity sometimes needs a mental blinder in the same way it needs sunglasses. It’s easy to see the blinders worn by others, but maybe we ourselves are wearing blinders and don’t even know it.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
Depends on your concept of God.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 20, 2019:
@SukantoSirkar I’ve never thought much of the soul concept as presented by traditional Christianity. The question in my mind is “Who or what is it that has a soul?” It would make more sense to say that the body is under observation and supervision by conscious awareness. I engage in these intuitive speculations only because I see no way that conscious awareness could spring from a mass of cells, no matter how many neurons are firing. It follows that our personal identity as a body, along with the physical universe of our perception is an illusion. Those ancient Indian sages were pretty astute IMO. The same idea has been espoused by various eminent physicists.
I personally do not think in terms of magic or the supernatural. Everything is natural but we can not truly understand nature with our symbolic model of matter moving through space and time. The implications of existence are absolutely staggering when met head-on without blinders. Faith in science is a blinder. Fantasizing about gods and goddesses is a blinder. Rote belief in scripture is a blinder.
Maybe humanity sometimes needs a mental blinder in the same way it needs sunglasses. It’s easy to see the blinders worn by others, but maybe we ourselves are wearing blinders and don’t even know it.
God is great only when you're dumb...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
Depends on your concept of God.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@SukantoSirkar what is your feeling about the Brahman concept?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
Depends on your concept of God.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@SukantoSirkar what is your feeling about the Brahman concept?
What do you think the world be like with out religion?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
All you have to do to find out is visit North Korea.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@maturin1919 It’s been tried over and over. Someone decides that they will “remove religion” as you put it. First off, to think that your opinion about religion is the only correct one requires arrogance and condescension. Second, to think that you even CAN “remove religion” requires a dictatorial mind-set of the first order. Finally, to actually “remove religion” would require bloodshed and brutality.
Leave people alone. You don’t have the whole picture.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 19, 2019:
All you have to do to find out is visit North Korea.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@maturin1919 It’s been tried over and over. Someone decides that they will “remove religion” as you put it. First off, to think that your opinion about religion is the only correct one requires arrogance and condescension. Second, to think that you even CAN “remove religion” requires a dictatorial mind-set of the first order. Finally, to actually “remove religion” would require bloodshed and brutality.
Leave people alone. You don’t have the whole picture.
Some not so bright atheists (even when they call themselves "brights" - a sad example of collective...
Varn comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Anymore, there’s no excuse to believe in classic religion; you either buy all of it, or none of it. It’s now a social structure based on exposed myths.
There are many behaviors attributable to disorders. Enough traits to be clinically diagnosed? Maybe not, but often enough to bear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Varn If you think there are no deep questions about existence you are wearing a blindfold.
There’s no such thing as magic but our understanding of nature is paper-thin. You are taking it all for granted without question.
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”
Albert Einstein
Varn comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Anymore, there’s no excuse to believe in classic religion; you either buy all of it, or none of it. It’s now a social structure based on exposed myths.
There are many behaviors attributable to disorders. Enough traits to be clinically diagnosed? Maybe not, but often enough to bear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Varn If you think there are no deep questions about existence you are wearing a blindfold.
There’s no such thing as magic but our understanding of nature is paper-thin. You are taking it all for granted without question.
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”
Albert Einstein
Good on them.
Perhaps atheists and agnostics could do likewise!
[independent.co.uk]
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Where were those priests and nuns during the Obama administration? There’s hardly any difference in immigration policies under Trump. The only difference is that the Big T has a bigger mouth.
On a related subject, Obama ran the first time in opposition to gay marriage. Where were all the hate ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Allamanda I think it is because Trump goes on about things in a way designed to provoke negative reactions. The press has some people whipped up into a frenzy of disgust and hatred toward Trump but those tactics are bound to backfire.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Where were those priests and nuns during the Obama administration? There’s hardly any difference in immigration policies under Trump. The only difference is that the Big T has a bigger mouth.
On a related subject, Obama ran the first time in opposition to gay marriage. Where were all the hate ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Allamanda I think it is because Trump goes on about things in a way designed to provoke negative reactions. The press has some people whipped up into a frenzy of disgust and hatred toward Trump but those tactics are bound to backfire.
In the beginning God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, and Evangelicals have ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 it was TimeOut that didn’t know we were joking. Congratulations on your success in a field you love.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 it was TimeOut that didn’t know we were joking. Congratulations on your success in a field you love.
Most Obese states are known for.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
No one should feel superior because his state has only a 23% obesity rate. 23% is way too high also.
The only question should be how can we lose all that weight. It’s an individual problem and only individuals can solve their problem.
This constant ranking of states is somewhat misleading. ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@St-Sinner I haven’t said a word about the resurrection. Where does that come from?
You can not dispute that California’s poverty rate is the highest in the nation. So far as Alabama, Mississippi, and New Mexico, unless you figure in the cost of living you are talking about nothing. I should know because I’ve lived in both Alabama and Alaska. I can assure you that my retirement dollars go much farther in Alabama and that I live here with more abundance.
Why do you denigrate and disparage the South? Can you explain why you think that is a good thing to do? After all, according to your bio you live in Texas, a southern state. My grandmother used to say that if you can’t think of something good to say it’s best to say nothing.
So far as educational attainment, many of the southern states rank higher than the national average.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment
Alabama and Mississippi are only a couple of percentage points below the national average, hardly anything you’d notice unless you have an agenda to preach. I see that California ranks 51. Hmm...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
No one should feel superior because his state has only a 23% obesity rate. 23% is way too high also.
The only question should be how can we lose all that weight. It’s an individual problem and only individuals can solve their problem.
This constant ranking of states is somewhat misleading. ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@St-Sinner I haven’t said a word about the resurrection. Where does that come from?
You can not dispute that California’s poverty rate is the highest in the nation. So far as Alabama, Mississippi, and New Mexico, unless you figure in the cost of living you are talking about nothing. I should know because I’ve lived in both Alabama and Alaska. I can assure you that my retirement dollars go much farther in Alabama and that I live here with more abundance.
Why do you denigrate and disparage the South? Can you explain why you think that is a good thing to do? After all, according to your bio you live in Texas, a southern state. My grandmother used to say that if you can’t think of something good to say it’s best to say nothing.
So far as educational attainment, many of the southern states rank higher than the national average.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment
Alabama and Mississippi are only a couple of percentage points below the national average, hardly anything you’d notice unless you have an agenda to preach. I see that California ranks 51. Hmm...
In the beginning God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, and Evangelicals have ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018, @TimeOutForMe Just joking around.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018, @TimeOutForMe Just joking around.
In the beginning God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, and Evangelicals have ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 Thanks for the education—they didn’t teach us such things in Sunday School.
You seem especially informed about Hebrew myths. Are you Jewish?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 Thanks for the education—they didn’t teach us such things in Sunday School.
You seem especially informed about Hebrew myths. Are you Jewish?
Most Obese states are known for.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
No one should feel superior because his state has only a 23% obesity rate. 23% is way too high also.
The only question should be how can we lose all that weight. It’s an individual problem and only individuals can solve their problem.
This constant ranking of states is somewhat misleading. ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@St-Sinner California has a higher poverty rate than any other state:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-california-poverty-20180114-story.html?_amp=true
Of course there is also a lot of wealth in California.
So far as Alabama and Mississippi, those states are not as poor as they seem. If you figure cost of living into the equation New York is poorer than Mississippi.
https://mises.org/wire/california-and-new-york-are-poorer-you-think
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
No one should feel superior because his state has only a 23% obesity rate. 23% is way too high also.
The only question should be how can we lose all that weight. It’s an individual problem and only individuals can solve their problem.
This constant ranking of states is somewhat misleading. ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@St-Sinner California has a higher poverty rate than any other state:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-jackson-california-poverty-20180114-story.html?_amp=true
Of course there is also a lot of wealth in California.
So far as Alabama and Mississippi, those states are not as poor as they seem. If you figure cost of living into the equation New York is poorer than Mississippi.
https://mises.org/wire/california-and-new-york-are-poorer-you-think
Good on them.
Perhaps atheists and agnostics could do likewise!
[independent.co.uk]
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Where were those priests and nuns during the Obama administration? There’s hardly any difference in immigration policies under Trump. The only difference is that the Big T has a bigger mouth.
On a related subject, Obama ran the first time in opposition to gay marriage. Where were all the hate ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Allamanda There might be differences in the measures taken but in sheer numbers the Obama administration deported far more immigrants.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/06/21/ice-claims-more-illegals-were-deported-under-obama-than-trump/amp/
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Where were those priests and nuns during the Obama administration? There’s hardly any difference in immigration policies under Trump. The only difference is that the Big T has a bigger mouth.
On a related subject, Obama ran the first time in opposition to gay marriage. Where were all the hate ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 19, 2019:
@Allamanda There might be differences in the measures taken but in sheer numbers the Obama administration deported far more immigrants.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/06/21/ice-claims-more-illegals-were-deported-under-obama-than-trump/amp/
In the beginning God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, and Evangelicals have ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 This is news to me, this Lilith gal, But wait—does that mean I’m missing TWO ribs? What the hell?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 This is news to me, this Lilith gal, But wait—does that mean I’m missing TWO ribs? What the hell?
Some not so bright atheists (even when they call themselves "brights" - a sad example of collective...
Varn comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Anymore, there’s no excuse to believe in classic religion; you either buy all of it, or none of it. It’s now a social structure based on exposed myths.
There are many behaviors attributable to disorders. Enough traits to be clinically diagnosed? Maybe not, but often enough to bear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@Varn Sounds like you might ought to send in your meter for calibration. When did you last have that done? :-)
If you think you understand reality based on the findings of science, you are mistaken. Read some books on modern physics. Reality is not the way it seems. Science offers superficial explanations but does not even address the deep questions of existence.
Ultimate reality can not be seen or understood using our human space/time/matter model. What good religion does is foster deep awareness, appreciation and gratitude for the staggering implications of the mysteries of reality, thereby lending infinite value to every moment of conscious awareness.
Varn comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Anymore, there’s no excuse to believe in classic religion; you either buy all of it, or none of it. It’s now a social structure based on exposed myths.
There are many behaviors attributable to disorders. Enough traits to be clinically diagnosed? Maybe not, but often enough to bear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@Varn Sounds like you might ought to send in your meter for calibration. When did you last have that done? :-)
If you think you understand reality based on the findings of science, you are mistaken. Read some books on modern physics. Reality is not the way it seems. Science offers superficial explanations but does not even address the deep questions of existence.
Ultimate reality can not be seen or understood using our human space/time/matter model. What good religion does is foster deep awareness, appreciation and gratitude for the staggering implications of the mysteries of reality, thereby lending infinite value to every moment of conscious awareness.
Most Obese states are known for.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
No one should feel superior because his state has only a 23% obesity rate. 23% is way too high also.
The only question should be how can we lose all that weight. It’s an individual problem and only individuals can solve their problem.
This constant ranking of states is somewhat misleading. ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@St-Sinner You might be reading too much into your statistics. Correlation does not always imply cause.
In many cases there are various causes that have not been looked at. I see this a lot where people will reel off about every attribute they dislike and attempt to link those attributes together, thereby demonizing and stereotyping entire classes of people, portraying them as “the others”, the undesirables.
Just a little bit of thinking should upset your theory. Look at Al Gore, a very devout Baptist, considered a liberal Democrat. Is religion causing a lot of problems for him? And fellow multimillionaire Hillary Clinton is an evangelical Methodist.
Conservative ideals are very commendable IMO. Trying to link conservatism with ignorance and obesity is just going too far.
The poorest state by far is California, a blue state. Does that prove that voting democrat causes poverty?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
No one should feel superior because his state has only a 23% obesity rate. 23% is way too high also.
The only question should be how can we lose all that weight. It’s an individual problem and only individuals can solve their problem.
This constant ranking of states is somewhat misleading. ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@St-Sinner You might be reading too much into your statistics. Correlation does not always imply cause.
In many cases there are various causes that have not been looked at. I see this a lot where people will reel off about every attribute they dislike and attempt to link those attributes together, thereby demonizing and stereotyping entire classes of people, portraying them as “the others”, the undesirables.
Just a little bit of thinking should upset your theory. Look at Al Gore, a very devout Baptist, considered a liberal Democrat. Is religion causing a lot of problems for him? And fellow multimillionaire Hillary Clinton is an evangelical Methodist.
Conservative ideals are very commendable IMO. Trying to link conservatism with ignorance and obesity is just going too far.
The poorest state by far is California, a blue state. Does that prove that voting democrat causes poverty?
In the beginning God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, and Evangelicals have ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 The old man gave Eve a break because she was an attractive woman but then she enticed Adam and God could see that things were about to get out of hand.
But I agree in principle. Blaming your actions on somebody else shows lack of courage. Yet I understand Adams position. He was hoping to please Eve by accepting the Apple, hoping to keep her in a good mood so she’d be amenable to his advances.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 18, 2019:
It was the tree of the knowledge of good vs. evil, in other words it was dualistic thinking that brought all their troubles. Everything is good by default but they went and allowed the concept of evil into their thinking and there’s been the sensation of fear and unhappiness ever since.
It was...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
@Gwendolyn2018 The old man gave Eve a break because she was an attractive woman but then she enticed Adam and God could see that things were about to get out of hand.
But I agree in principle. Blaming your actions on somebody else shows lack of courage. Yet I understand Adams position. He was hoping to please Eve by accepting the Apple, hoping to keep her in a good mood so she’d be amenable to his advances.
Some not so bright atheists (even when they call themselves "brights" - a sad example of collective...
David_Cooper comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Throughout most of human history (and likely prehistory too) there have been vicious dictators who have killed all those who fail to worship them and grovel in the dust at their feet. That has selected for a population of people who are predisposed to conform to a herd mentality, following their ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
I think that throughout most of our existence humans lived in small groups, led by the elders. I expect that if anyone became overly dictatorial they would be the ones getting killed or banished. The job of religious leaders was to ward off evil spirits, a worthy function, don’t you think? :-)
David_Cooper comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Throughout most of human history (and likely prehistory too) there have been vicious dictators who have killed all those who fail to worship them and grovel in the dust at their feet. That has selected for a population of people who are predisposed to conform to a herd mentality, following their ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
I think that throughout most of our existence humans lived in small groups, led by the elders. I expect that if anyone became overly dictatorial they would be the ones getting killed or banished. The job of religious leaders was to ward off evil spirits, a worthy function, don’t you think? :-)
Some not so bright atheists (even when they call themselves "brights" - a sad example of collective...
Varn comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Anymore, there’s no excuse to believe in classic religion; you either buy all of it, or none of it. It’s now a social structure based on exposed myths.
There are many behaviors attributable to disorders. Enough traits to be clinically diagnosed? Maybe not, but often enough to bear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
Scientific knowledge, while very valuable and fascinating, does not even address, let alone answer the overwhelming basic questions about reality. You might sit proudly on the golden throne of scientific knowledge but underneath it all is quicksand.
Religion can be thought of as a collection of artistic expressions, to be experienced, not to be believed or disbelieved. Even some religions demand belief, but anyone who sees religion as an alternative explanation for nature, to be believed or disbelieved is missing the whole point of religion.
Varn comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Anymore, there’s no excuse to believe in classic religion; you either buy all of it, or none of it. It’s now a social structure based on exposed myths.
There are many behaviors attributable to disorders. Enough traits to be clinically diagnosed? Maybe not, but often enough to bear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
Scientific knowledge, while very valuable and fascinating, does not even address, let alone answer the overwhelming basic questions about reality. You might sit proudly on the golden throne of scientific knowledge but underneath it all is quicksand.
Religion can be thought of as a collection of artistic expressions, to be experienced, not to be believed or disbelieved. Even some religions demand belief, but anyone who sees religion as an alternative explanation for nature, to be believed or disbelieved is missing the whole point of religion.
Some not so bright atheists (even when they call themselves "brights" - a sad example of collective...
mischl comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Belief in supernatural and imaginary beings can be defined as a mental illness.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
Anything can be defined any way you like. Atheism can be defined as a mental illness.
mischl comments on Jul 18, 2019:
Belief in supernatural and imaginary beings can be defined as a mental illness.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 18, 2019:
Anything can be defined any way you like. Atheism can be defined as a mental illness.
Religion is the most hideous invention in the history of Mankind.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
“This is what children do, and if they do not grow out of it, they will become schizophrenic”
A false statement. A cousin of mine died in his nineties and he was very religious for his whole life. Never once was he schizophrenic. It only takes one case to disprove a general statement like you...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@DavidNoel according to Williams people create their own mental breakdown as an attempt to escape from life situations that have become unbearably fearful and tense. They reorder their way of perception, creating sights and sounds out of the mass of incoming stimuli that no one else detects. If, at that point they are given support and empathy they generally work through the reorganization of their minds and become healthy, successful, and deeply happy. Williams would label it as spiritual but I think also that many of them become religious in a more traditional sense. Too often society shuns them and they are given harsh medications. Those are the ones who tend to not get better
According to Williams there is a gradient in our lives between radical individualism and total immersion in others. At the first extreme lies loneliness and fear. Immersion with others represents loss of self or death. Those subject to schizophrenia can be anywhere on the gradient but they have little tolerance to change. A healthy, adaptable person can move back and forth along the line between the two extremes without fear.
I can’t really do the book justice—I’m telling you what I remember. It is one of those books that sticks in my mind and I’m glad I read it but I wish I could have read it thirty years earlier—it wasn’t written yet. Because the book is anti-medication I expected that many psychiatrists would be harshly critical, but try as I might, I couldn’t find a single negative review.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
“This is what children do, and if they do not grow out of it, they will become schizophrenic”
A false statement. A cousin of mine died in his nineties and he was very religious for his whole life. Never once was he schizophrenic. It only takes one case to disprove a general statement like you...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@DavidNoel according to Williams people create their own mental breakdown as an attempt to escape from life situations that have become unbearably fearful and tense. They reorder their way of perception, creating sights and sounds out of the mass of incoming stimuli that no one else detects. If, at that point they are given support and empathy they generally work through the reorganization of their minds and become healthy, successful, and deeply happy. Williams would label it as spiritual but I think also that many of them become religious in a more traditional sense. Too often society shuns them and they are given harsh medications. Those are the ones who tend to not get better
According to Williams there is a gradient in our lives between radical individualism and total immersion in others. At the first extreme lies loneliness and fear. Immersion with others represents loss of self or death. Those subject to schizophrenia can be anywhere on the gradient but they have little tolerance to change. A healthy, adaptable person can move back and forth along the line between the two extremes without fear.
I can’t really do the book justice—I’m telling you what I remember. It is one of those books that sticks in my mind and I’m glad I read it but I wish I could have read it thirty years earlier—it wasn’t written yet. Because the book is anti-medication I expected that many psychiatrists would be harshly critical, but try as I might, I couldn’t find a single negative review.
Religion is the most hideous invention in the history of Mankind.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
“This is what children do, and if they do not grow out of it, they will become schizophrenic”
A false statement. A cousin of mine died in his nineties and he was very religious for his whole life. Never once was he schizophrenic. It only takes one case to disprove a general statement like you...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@DavidNoel, @kodimerlyn Congratulations for fulfilling your duty and surviving.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
“This is what children do, and if they do not grow out of it, they will become schizophrenic”
A false statement. A cousin of mine died in his nineties and he was very religious for his whole life. Never once was he schizophrenic. It only takes one case to disprove a general statement like you...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@DavidNoel, @kodimerlyn Congratulations for fulfilling your duty and surviving.
Religion is the most hideous invention in the history of Mankind.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
“This is what children do, and if they do not grow out of it, they will become schizophrenic”
A false statement. A cousin of mine died in his nineties and he was very religious for his whole life. Never once was he schizophrenic. It only takes one case to disprove a general statement like you...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@DavidNoel Being around a schizophrenic person can be disturbing and difficult for an adult and I would imagine that for a child it would be very traumatic.
I can only say congratulations for enduring and surviving.
Actually there is a connection between schizophrenia and spirituality, but the spirituality is intensified AFTER the onset of schizophrenia. There is a very good book called “Rethinking Madness” that delves deeply into that issue. You would not know it from reading his book, but Paris Williams actually overcame schizophrenia, going on to become a psychiatrist.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
“This is what children do, and if they do not grow out of it, they will become schizophrenic”
A false statement. A cousin of mine died in his nineties and he was very religious for his whole life. Never once was he schizophrenic. It only takes one case to disprove a general statement like you...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@DavidNoel Being around a schizophrenic person can be disturbing and difficult for an adult and I would imagine that for a child it would be very traumatic.
I can only say congratulations for enduring and surviving.
Actually there is a connection between schizophrenia and spirituality, but the spirituality is intensified AFTER the onset of schizophrenia. There is a very good book called “Rethinking Madness” that delves deeply into that issue. You would not know it from reading his book, but Paris Williams actually overcame schizophrenia, going on to become a psychiatrist.
Where do myths come from?
[facebook.com]
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
Very interesting video. I admire Campbell but in this case I don’t understand what myth has to do with the woman’s dream. As an expression of unconscious knowledge, yes, but is that myth? Maybe someone can help me here.
I think of storytelling as an art form, and storytelling must have been ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@skado Where do you think the collective unconscious is stored? Is it a part of our bodies somehow? Perhaps it’s that universal consciousness that so excites me, that I try to avoid mentioning.
We might have inherited that visual symbolism from our pre-human ancestors who had no language. Perhaps when we dream we are experiencing life as animals experience it. Words introduced an extra layer of symbolism. While meditating or dreaming maybe that extra layer of symbolism is stripped away and we experience reality in a purer way.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
Very interesting video. I admire Campbell but in this case I don’t understand what myth has to do with the woman’s dream. As an expression of unconscious knowledge, yes, but is that myth? Maybe someone can help me here.
I think of storytelling as an art form, and storytelling must have been ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@skado Where do you think the collective unconscious is stored? Is it a part of our bodies somehow? Perhaps it’s that universal consciousness that so excites me, that I try to avoid mentioning.
We might have inherited that visual symbolism from our pre-human ancestors who had no language. Perhaps when we dream we are experiencing life as animals experience it. Words introduced an extra layer of symbolism. While meditating or dreaming maybe that extra layer of symbolism is stripped away and we experience reality in a purer way.
Technology may seem to be the enemy cz it continuously and successfuly replaces humans.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
I fully agree. If viewed from an overall perspective having to do work is a liability, not an asset.
The only problem to be overcome is the distribution of goods and services so that each person has at least a subsistence income. That could be achieved through state capitalism such as is enjoyed ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@Neenz I think we should slowly evolve toward better ways while preserving the core principles that have been shown to work.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 16, 2019:
I fully agree. If viewed from an overall perspective having to do work is a liability, not an asset.
The only problem to be overcome is the distribution of goods and services so that each person has at least a subsistence income. That could be achieved through state capitalism such as is enjoyed ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
@Neenz I think we should slowly evolve toward better ways while preserving the core principles that have been shown to work.
There is one thing I don't understand (as an outside observer of politics in the US) : why can't ...
Tooreen comments on Jul 17, 2019:
It is promoted by the news media. Simply put it drives ratings.
Shock ,anger, outrage all makes good copy. I have pointedly avoided American media for the last year or so. When I do check in it is invariably the same crap. I would make an assumption that most people just ignore the show
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
Well said.
That’s what I do also
Tooreen comments on Jul 17, 2019:
It is promoted by the news media. Simply put it drives ratings.
Shock ,anger, outrage all makes good copy. I have pointedly avoided American media for the last year or so. When I do check in it is invariably the same crap. I would make an assumption that most people just ignore the show
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 17, 2019:
Well said.
That’s what I do also
What do atheist/agnostic authors tell you that you don’t know already?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 13, 2019:
The premises presented by most churches are obviously based on myth, allegory, imagination and outright lies. Once a person clearly understands that, reading about that fact over and over is boring and unproductive.
Rather than be a party to a negative campaign against religion, I’d much ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 13, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Which difficult problems moving forward are better solved by wallowing in endlessly repeated negative declarations about religion? I can see how that, having made a critical analysis a person would be in a favorable position to progress toward greater understanding, leaving behind the mistaken ideas without a backward glance.
What is the nature of this truth whereof you speak?
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 13, 2019:
The premises presented by most churches are obviously based on myth, allegory, imagination and outright lies. Once a person clearly understands that, reading about that fact over and over is boring and unproductive.
Rather than be a party to a negative campaign against religion, I’d much ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 13, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Which difficult problems moving forward are better solved by wallowing in endlessly repeated negative declarations about religion? I can see how that, having made a critical analysis a person would be in a favorable position to progress toward greater understanding, leaving behind the mistaken ideas without a backward glance.
What is the nature of this truth whereof you speak?
There are basically two types of agnosticism:
the first one takes place and participates in the ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 13, 2019:
I try to stay out of the debate but it is not because of laziness. I sincerely think that it is futile to debate about a higher level of reality that can not be understood or known.
The debate is over existence, right? Our human concept of existence involves sustenance over time, but time is ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 13, 2019:
@TheMiddleWay I had to look that up, but yes, that describes my position. I go further and say that “existence” has no clear definition either, so it is doubly futile to argue over the existence of God. Since I have no clear idea of what it is that I am supposed to be it is triply not appropriate for me to engage in an argument that concerns higher reality.
Actually I am an atheist with respect to the God concept presented by many religious organizations. But atheism is not my mantra. There is something of overwhelming proportions behind nature, beyond our reach. There is much more to this life situation than meets the eye. Anyone who shrugs it off simply has their head in the sand.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 13, 2019:
I try to stay out of the debate but it is not because of laziness. I sincerely think that it is futile to debate about a higher level of reality that can not be understood or known.
The debate is over existence, right? Our human concept of existence involves sustenance over time, but time is ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 13, 2019:
@TheMiddleWay I had to look that up, but yes, that describes my position. I go further and say that “existence” has no clear definition either, so it is doubly futile to argue over the existence of God. Since I have no clear idea of what it is that I am supposed to be it is triply not appropriate for me to engage in an argument that concerns higher reality.
Actually I am an atheist with respect to the God concept presented by many religious organizations. But atheism is not my mantra. There is something of overwhelming proportions behind nature, beyond our reach. There is much more to this life situation than meets the eye. Anyone who shrugs it off simply has their head in the sand.
Flow is the driver of inseparability.
AnneWimsey comments on Jul 13, 2019:
Lotta syllabyles, signifying....?
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 13, 2019:
Sarcasm
AnneWimsey comments on Jul 13, 2019:
Lotta syllabyles, signifying....?
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 13, 2019:
Sarcasm
Andrew Yang Thinks It’s “Ridiculous” How Some People Believe Atheists Are Less Moral ...
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 12, 2019:
@Triphid I have never heard of an Atheist or Atheists knocking on doors to sell or speak to you in YOUR home about Atheism. I did however take an undergraduate course in the philosophy of religion, taught by an extremely zealous atheist. I learned absolutely nothing about the philosophy of religion. The entire semester was spent listening to his tirades. If anyone tried to question any of his pronouncements he would cut them off in mid-sentence with a stern rebuff. Not only was the course extremely irritating, it was a total waste of my father’s money. I feel angry right now just thinking about it almost sixty years later.
All of my education was in rural or small-town Alabama, and not ONCE was religion ever pushed or advocated by any of my teachers.
As I said earlier, religious people don’t bother me. I am not in accord with Christianity as presented by traditional churches, but I do not demonize anyone because of their religion. I know that religious organizations have sometimes been authoritarian and brutal, but I am not affected at this time and location.
So far as the question of the existence of God, no one alive knows or understands reality at that level and it is absolutely stupid to go on about it. Humans have no idea of the meaning of existence and we haven’t a clue as to what we ourselves are or as to the nature of conscious awareness. The only rational response to the overwhelming mystery of existence that I can see is that of abject bewilderment.
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 12, 2019:
@Triphid I have never heard of an Atheist or Atheists knocking on doors to sell or speak to you in YOUR home about Atheism. I did however take an undergraduate course in the philosophy of religion, taught by an extremely zealous atheist. I learned absolutely nothing about the philosophy of religion. The entire semester was spent listening to his tirades. If anyone tried to question any of his pronouncements he would cut them off in mid-sentence with a stern rebuff. Not only was the course extremely irritating, it was a total waste of my father’s money. I feel angry right now just thinking about it almost sixty years later.
All of my education was in rural or small-town Alabama, and not ONCE was religion ever pushed or advocated by any of my teachers.
As I said earlier, religious people don’t bother me. I am not in accord with Christianity as presented by traditional churches, but I do not demonize anyone because of their religion. I know that religious organizations have sometimes been authoritarian and brutal, but I am not affected at this time and location.
So far as the question of the existence of God, no one alive knows or understands reality at that level and it is absolutely stupid to go on about it. Humans have no idea of the meaning of existence and we haven’t a clue as to what we ourselves are or as to the nature of conscious awareness. The only rational response to the overwhelming mystery of existence that I can see is that of abject bewilderment.
Regarding baby atheists
1of5 comments on Jul 12, 2019:
So? I certainly hope you don't think this is the first time someone's pointed out the exact same thing you just did.
To me *Same questions (and I do mean the same). Same statements. Same references. Same conclusions.* means thier thinking is sound.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 12, 2019:
Maybe their thinking really is sound but it becomes boring to hear the same grievances over and over.
As a negative declaration atheism might be necessary, but it would seem happy and productive to then move ahead with positivity.
1of5 comments on Jul 12, 2019:
So? I certainly hope you don't think this is the first time someone's pointed out the exact same thing you just did.
To me *Same questions (and I do mean the same). Same statements. Same references. Same conclusions.* means thier thinking is sound.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 12, 2019:
Maybe their thinking really is sound but it becomes boring to hear the same grievances over and over.
As a negative declaration atheism might be necessary, but it would seem happy and productive to then move ahead with positivity.
Andrew Yang Thinks It’s “Ridiculous” How Some People Believe Atheists Are Less Moral ...
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
@Triphid I remain pessimistic that your Martian colony would remain atheistic for long or that life under such a regime would be characterized by mutual cooperation, unity and social oneness, and I disagree with your assignment of divisiveness, etc. to religion.
You need not start a colony on Mars. You can look at the results of atheistic regimes over vast expanses of Earth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Atheism as a state ideology has never succeeded for long, and many of the regimes have been marked by authoritarianism and brutality. Please do not include me in the Mars venture. I’m getting along well with my religious neighbors and kin and have no grievances.
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
@Triphid I remain pessimistic that your Martian colony would remain atheistic for long or that life under such a regime would be characterized by mutual cooperation, unity and social oneness, and I disagree with your assignment of divisiveness, etc. to religion.
You need not start a colony on Mars. You can look at the results of atheistic regimes over vast expanses of Earth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Atheism as a state ideology has never succeeded for long, and many of the regimes have been marked by authoritarianism and brutality. Please do not include me in the Mars venture. I’m getting along well with my religious neighbors and kin and have no grievances.
Atheism Is Inconsistent with the Scientific Method, Prizewinning Physicist Says - Scientific ...
Pastafarian42 comments on Jul 11, 2019:
Wow. His arguments are painfully stupid. I can only assume he's agnostic about a celestial teapot, the disappearing elephant in my trunk, bigfoot, unicorns, etc. And of course he'd be totally respectful of the people that successfully impose their genocidal space wizard agenda as necessary. Fuck ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
@OwlInASack I am also an atheist with respect to the set of mad and often immoral claims presented by some organized religious groups. A set of claims is not all there is to reality.
Gleiser is not calling for people to believe the unbelievable. I think he is asking us to look directly at the stark implications of reality and see the limitations to our ability to comprehend. If A person declares in connection with ultimate reality that they disbelieve, that is a sure sign that they have not truly looked.
Deciding that the moon is not a goddess or that it is, after all, not made of cheese—that is only the first step. We should go on from there to examine and study the moon as best we can with an attitude of curiosity, awe and reverence. Sitting on your ass and spouting disbelief will get you nowhere.
Pastafarian42 comments on Jul 11, 2019:
Wow. His arguments are painfully stupid. I can only assume he's agnostic about a celestial teapot, the disappearing elephant in my trunk, bigfoot, unicorns, etc. And of course he'd be totally respectful of the people that successfully impose their genocidal space wizard agenda as necessary. Fuck ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
@OwlInASack I am also an atheist with respect to the set of mad and often immoral claims presented by some organized religious groups. A set of claims is not all there is to reality.
Gleiser is not calling for people to believe the unbelievable. I think he is asking us to look directly at the stark implications of reality and see the limitations to our ability to comprehend. If A person declares in connection with ultimate reality that they disbelieve, that is a sure sign that they have not truly looked.
Deciding that the moon is not a goddess or that it is, after all, not made of cheese—that is only the first step. We should go on from there to examine and study the moon as best we can with an attitude of curiosity, awe and reverence. Sitting on your ass and spouting disbelief will get you nowhere.
Atheism Is Inconsistent with the Scientific Method, Prizewinning Physicist Says - Scientific ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 11, 2019:
I have the utmost respect and admiration for Marcelo Gleiser, and that is based on his deep awareness and reverence for the dazzling, mysterious reality in which we find ourselves. I am on board with his views 100%.
All this argument about belief vs. disbelief entirely misses the point. The ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
@TheMiddleWay I already admired Gleiser but after reading this article I am absolutely enthralled. He has a rare combination of deep awareness and insight, acute intelligence and courage, along with reverence and humility. He is a living embodiment of the spirit of science!
Thank you very much for this post MiddleWay.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 11, 2019:
I have the utmost respect and admiration for Marcelo Gleiser, and that is based on his deep awareness and reverence for the dazzling, mysterious reality in which we find ourselves. I am on board with his views 100%.
All this argument about belief vs. disbelief entirely misses the point. The ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
@TheMiddleWay I already admired Gleiser but after reading this article I am absolutely enthralled. He has a rare combination of deep awareness and insight, acute intelligence and courage, along with reverence and humility. He is a living embodiment of the spirit of science!
Thank you very much for this post MiddleWay.
Atheism Is Inconsistent with the Scientific Method, Prizewinning Physicist Says - Scientific ...
Pastafarian42 comments on Jul 11, 2019:
Wow. His arguments are painfully stupid. I can only assume he's agnostic about a celestial teapot, the disappearing elephant in my trunk, bigfoot, unicorns, etc. And of course he'd be totally respectful of the people that successfully impose their genocidal space wizard agenda as necessary. Fuck ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
Rather than making a bald-faced declaration of disbelief concerning ultimate reality, it would seem more honest to just say that you don’t understand.
Pastafarian42 comments on Jul 11, 2019:
Wow. His arguments are painfully stupid. I can only assume he's agnostic about a celestial teapot, the disappearing elephant in my trunk, bigfoot, unicorns, etc. And of course he'd be totally respectful of the people that successfully impose their genocidal space wizard agenda as necessary. Fuck ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
Rather than making a bald-faced declaration of disbelief concerning ultimate reality, it would seem more honest to just say that you don’t understand.
Here’s a huffpost article on a study about religion and war:
[google.
JacobMeyers comments on Jul 11, 2019:
Why are you asking here? Go ask people who study the causes of war.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
The idea of asking a question on a forum is to stimulate discussion.
JacobMeyers comments on Jul 11, 2019:
Why are you asking here? Go ask people who study the causes of war.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 11, 2019:
The idea of asking a question on a forum is to stimulate discussion.
Here’s a huffpost article on a study about religion and war:
[google.
Triphid comments on Jul 10, 2019:
There has always been a religious element to be found somewhere in warfare between humans, e,g. " Gott mitt Uns" was stamped into the belt buckles of EVERY Nazi Soldier, Prayers were offered up for Victory by the Chaplains, Churches, etc, on the Allied Side as well.
Go back as far as the Battle for...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
Yet from the article we have this:
“In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare.”
Of course 7% is still a lot of wars.
Triphid comments on Jul 10, 2019:
There has always been a religious element to be found somewhere in warfare between humans, e,g. " Gott mitt Uns" was stamped into the belt buckles of EVERY Nazi Soldier, Prayers were offered up for Victory by the Chaplains, Churches, etc, on the Allied Side as well.
Go back as far as the Battle for...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
Yet from the article we have this:
“In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare.”
Of course 7% is still a lot of wars.
Here’s a huffpost article on a study about religion and war:
[google.
KKGator comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Humans are an inherently violent species.
We've never really needed much of a reason to make war on
ourselves.
Power, territory, money, some other king's wife, etc.
Religion is still responsible for an awful lot of violence that's been done
in it's name.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
I agree.
KKGator comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Humans are an inherently violent species.
We've never really needed much of a reason to make war on
ourselves.
Power, territory, money, some other king's wife, etc.
Religion is still responsible for an awful lot of violence that's been done
in it's name.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
I agree.
Andrew Yang Thinks It’s “Ridiculous” How Some People Believe Atheists Are Less Moral ...
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
@Triphid I can see that the original settlers would be very zealous and fixed in their opinions but the children would have curiosity, and their minds would be open. They’d wonder where all this came from and what it means. They’d be full of awe and reverence, not for “God” but for the mystery and grandeur of nature and for the enigmas of conscious awareness and personal identity.
Looks like I neglected to give the link for those studies about religion and war.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+wars+have+been+fought+over+religion%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari
This has prompted me to make a new post.
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
@Triphid I can see that the original settlers would be very zealous and fixed in their opinions but the children would have curiosity, and their minds would be open. They’d wonder where all this came from and what it means. They’d be full of awe and reverence, not for “God” but for the mystery and grandeur of nature and for the enigmas of conscious awareness and personal identity.
Looks like I neglected to give the link for those studies about religion and war.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+wars+have+been+fought+over+religion%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari
This has prompted me to make a new post.
Andrew Yang Thinks It’s “Ridiculous” How Some People Believe Atheists Are Less Moral ...
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
@Triphid I was just going by memory, but here are some actual studies. You are right that it’s more than a “handful” but religion does not figure very prominently in the history of war.
My feeling, personal opinion only, is that some form of religion would arise spontaneously among the Martian population just as it arises on earth. The religious impulse is deeply imbedded in humanity.
Even if not, wouldn’t there be communication with earth? Wouldn’t religious ideas be discussed on forums? Would books be available?
Maybe a planet in a more distant solar system would be more suitable. :-)
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
@Triphid I was just going by memory, but here are some actual studies. You are right that it’s more than a “handful” but religion does not figure very prominently in the history of war.
My feeling, personal opinion only, is that some form of religion would arise spontaneously among the Martian population just as it arises on earth. The religious impulse is deeply imbedded in humanity.
Even if not, wouldn’t there be communication with earth? Wouldn’t religious ideas be discussed on forums? Would books be available?
Maybe a planet in a more distant solar system would be more suitable. :-)
Andrew Yang Thinks It’s “Ridiculous” How Some People Believe Atheists Are Less Moral ...
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
@Triphid Innumerable? That would be too many to count. I can only think of a handful of such wars.
How would you control the future generations? Do you think young people would learn about and adopt religion or might create new religions in your Martian society?
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
@Triphid Innumerable? That would be too many to count. I can only think of a handful of such wars.
How would you control the future generations? Do you think young people would learn about and adopt religion or might create new religions in your Martian society?
Andrew Yang Thinks It’s “Ridiculous” How Some People Believe Atheists Are Less Moral ...
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
The Martians would split up into atheists and agnostics and there’d be constant war between the sects.
Williamcristiano comments on Jul 10, 2019:
Sometimes i would like to colonize mars and live there without religion, only with my unbelievers neighbors.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 10, 2019:
The Martians would split up into atheists and agnostics and there’d be constant war between the sects.
Peterson thinks we got our ethics from our Judeo-Christian heritage.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 9, 2019:
I agree with you absolutely, and based on what you say I will not ruffle my serenity and waste time in watching the video.
Our so-called Judeo-Christian heritage is skin deep. I myself have been alive for a twentieth of the time since Christianity was established in Northern Europe.
Our human...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 9, 2019:
@Renickulous Y’can’t read everything. A person has to be selective—look at reviews etc.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 9, 2019:
I agree with you absolutely, and based on what you say I will not ruffle my serenity and waste time in watching the video.
Our so-called Judeo-Christian heritage is skin deep. I myself have been alive for a twentieth of the time since Christianity was established in Northern Europe.
Our human...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 9, 2019:
@Renickulous Y’can’t read everything. A person has to be selective—look at reviews etc.
"Religious delusion was found in 2007 to strongly correlate with "temporolimbic overactivity”, a ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 8, 2019:
It’s true that religious themes are common subjects of psychoses, but I doubt if a person can infer then that religion itself is a psychosis. People have psychoses about various subjects. John Nash, for example, once thought that he had been selected to be king of the world. You can not understand...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 8, 2019:
@St-Sinner It’s not a question of dying and coming back. All of life is a continuum—a single entity.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 8, 2019:
It’s true that religious themes are common subjects of psychoses, but I doubt if a person can infer then that religion itself is a psychosis. People have psychoses about various subjects. John Nash, for example, once thought that he had been selected to be king of the world. You can not understand...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 8, 2019:
@St-Sinner It’s not a question of dying and coming back. All of life is a continuum—a single entity.
Permethrin spray repels and kills ticks, mosquitoes and 39 other biting insects
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 7, 2019:
I wonder if it would work on red bugs, aka chiggers.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 8, 2019:
@LiterateHiker It’s on the way. Thanks for the tip.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 7, 2019:
I wonder if it would work on red bugs, aka chiggers.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 8, 2019:
@LiterateHiker It’s on the way. Thanks for the tip.
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
bobwjr comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Yeah but only under pressure
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
@bobwjr I’m not sure. If we had been on the grand jury we’d have all the facts and it might make more sense.
bobwjr comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Yeah but only under pressure
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
@bobwjr I’m not sure. If we had been on the grand jury we’d have all the facts and it might make more sense.
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
bobwjr comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Yeah but only under pressure
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
Read her own words:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019/07/marshae-jones-will-not-be-tried-for-manslaughter-in-unborn-babys-death-da-says.html%3foutputType=amp
bobwjr comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Yeah but only under pressure
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
Read her own words:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019/07/marshae-jones-will-not-be-tried-for-manslaughter-in-unborn-babys-death-da-says.html%3foutputType=amp
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
St-Sinner comments on Jul 4, 2019:
The person who shot her is an animal but it is beyond me why a pregnant woman would not take care of herself and be in a bar.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
@Cast1es According to reports she was making a vicious attack on the woman who shot her.
St-Sinner comments on Jul 4, 2019:
The person who shot her is an animal but it is beyond me why a pregnant woman would not take care of herself and be in a bar.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
@Cast1es According to reports she was making a vicious attack on the woman who shot her.
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
BillF comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Has anybody heard any rational reason for not charging the shooter? I know this is Alabama, a state not known for anything rational but this makes them look even worse than before.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
If we had been on the grand jury we would have had the pertinent facts and we might understand it better.
BillF comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Has anybody heard any rational reason for not charging the shooter? I know this is Alabama, a state not known for anything rational but this makes them look even worse than before.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
If we had been on the grand jury we would have had the pertinent facts and we might understand it better.
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 4, 2019:
The District Attorney in this case is a Black woman. Lynneice Washington. From al.com:
Speaking publicly for the first time at a weekend event, Washington delivered passionate remarks before a predominantly black audience saying “I am a black woman in black skin. So, don’t tell me how I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
@SeaGreenEyez I will not form an opinion, not having all the pertinent facts. Apparently the two women were fighting over the father. The woman who fired the shot was said to have been trying to escape and was in fear for her life.
Maybe the grand jury was correct in this case. It’s not our call.
WilliamFleming comments on Jul 4, 2019:
The District Attorney in this case is a Black woman. Lynneice Washington. From al.com:
Speaking publicly for the first time at a weekend event, Washington delivered passionate remarks before a predominantly black audience saying “I am a black woman in black skin. So, don’t tell me how I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
@SeaGreenEyez I will not form an opinion, not having all the pertinent facts. Apparently the two women were fighting over the father. The woman who fired the shot was said to have been trying to escape and was in fear for her life.
Maybe the grand jury was correct in this case. It’s not our call.
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
Rudy1962 comments on Jul 4, 2019:
As he should of. People never cease to amaze me with their ignorance
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
She.
Rudy1962 comments on Jul 4, 2019:
As he should of. People never cease to amaze me with their ignorance
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
She.
Alabama prosecutor drops charges against woman who lost fetus after being shot
noworry28 comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Actually the grand jury in that state which is comprised of regular citizens is who voted to indict her after voting not to indict the shooter. The prosecutor who would not file the charges against her will possibly face a lot of negative backlash from the conservative Christians when he runs for ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
Not likely. She will likely be swept back into office by the voters in her district. See her quote above that I posted.
noworry28 comments on Jul 4, 2019:
Actually the grand jury in that state which is comprised of regular citizens is who voted to indict her after voting not to indict the shooter. The prosecutor who would not file the charges against her will possibly face a lot of negative backlash from the conservative Christians when he runs for ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 4, 2019:
Not likely. She will likely be swept back into office by the voters in her district. See her quote above that I posted.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
Duchess_Nyx comments on Jun 25, 2019:
"said by some" to be infiltrating and taking over? We know they are. They routinely say themselves they are.
We're not hypersensitive and it's not "for some reason". We're being vigilant because we understand what separation of church and state is and because it's necessary.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 3, 2019:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right
Religious conservatives have a perfect right to advocate and work toward any law or government policy of their choosing. That’s a long way from trying to take over government.
No one here has presented evidence that religious groups are planning to take over the government. There is one very small group that advocates some sort of theocracy but that group has been roundly condemned by almost everyone. They are of no threat at all.
Duchess_Nyx comments on Jun 25, 2019:
"said by some" to be infiltrating and taking over? We know they are. They routinely say themselves they are.
We're not hypersensitive and it's not "for some reason". We're being vigilant because we understand what separation of church and state is and because it's necessary.
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 3, 2019:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right
Religious conservatives have a perfect right to advocate and work toward any law or government policy of their choosing. That’s a long way from trying to take over government.
No one here has presented evidence that religious groups are planning to take over the government. There is one very small group that advocates some sort of theocracy but that group has been roundly condemned by almost everyone. They are of no threat at all.
A "perfect world" is theoretically possible, is it not?
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 2, 2019:
@Deiter Sorry.
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 2, 2019:
@Deiter Sorry.
A "perfect world" is theoretically possible, is it not?
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 1, 2019:
@Deiter For someone supposedly optimistic you certainly have a lot of grievances and negative judgments.
The connection between conservatism and religion is mostly in your mind.
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jul 1, 2019:
@Deiter For someone supposedly optimistic you certainly have a lot of grievances and negative judgments.
The connection between conservatism and religion is mostly in your mind.
A "perfect world" is theoretically possible, is it not?
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 30, 2019:
@Deiter It is truly commendable to possess liberal characteristics. Those with liberal characteristics are broad minded and open to new ideas. They respect and love their fellow man and wish for everyone health, happiness and well-being. They are cheerful, generous, empathetic.
Truly liberal people do not stereotype, demonize and attack those with opinions different than their own. Rather, they engage in discussion and look for common ground. For example, they readily engage with Republicans and Democrats alike with an attitude of respect and understanding. They exclude no one from their sphere of generosity and respect—for example, they find things to like about our current president.
Conservatives have deep awareness for the miracle of life. They are imbued with awe and reverence for life. Everywhere they look they see beauty and value. They value the established government under the constitution. They value their families, the economic system, our freedoms, sometimes their religions. In general conservatives value hard work, frugality, saving and investing. They are willing to sacrifice, to invest for long-term benefit. A lot of those with conservative values are strong, courageous, and highly motivated—they are often good leaders.
The goals of conservatives are generally the same as those of liberals. They want to see freedom, happiness, health and well-being for the country and the world. They think those goals are best achieved with traditional and established methods. They do not oppose progress, but they insist on a clear formulation of the overall goals, and they want to know about the trade offs.
A conservative person is not the opposite of a liberal person. It is entirely possible, even common, to have both conservative and liberal values at the same time. I think of Jimmy Carter, very liberal and with conservative values also regarding economic matters. Bill Clinton IMO is somewhat the same way. I see in Colin Powell a man of liberal values as well as conservative.
We need both liberal and conservative values. You might point to shortcomings and failures in government and society, but look also at the overall picture and at the interacting roles and at our very significant successes.
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 30, 2019:
@Deiter It is truly commendable to possess liberal characteristics. Those with liberal characteristics are broad minded and open to new ideas. They respect and love their fellow man and wish for everyone health, happiness and well-being. They are cheerful, generous, empathetic.
Truly liberal people do not stereotype, demonize and attack those with opinions different than their own. Rather, they engage in discussion and look for common ground. For example, they readily engage with Republicans and Democrats alike with an attitude of respect and understanding. They exclude no one from their sphere of generosity and respect—for example, they find things to like about our current president.
Conservatives have deep awareness for the miracle of life. They are imbued with awe and reverence for life. Everywhere they look they see beauty and value. They value the established government under the constitution. They value their families, the economic system, our freedoms, sometimes their religions. In general conservatives value hard work, frugality, saving and investing. They are willing to sacrifice, to invest for long-term benefit. A lot of those with conservative values are strong, courageous, and highly motivated—they are often good leaders.
The goals of conservatives are generally the same as those of liberals. They want to see freedom, happiness, health and well-being for the country and the world. They think those goals are best achieved with traditional and established methods. They do not oppose progress, but they insist on a clear formulation of the overall goals, and they want to know about the trade offs.
A conservative person is not the opposite of a liberal person. It is entirely possible, even common, to have both conservative and liberal values at the same time. I think of Jimmy Carter, very liberal and with conservative values also regarding economic matters. Bill Clinton IMO is somewhat the same way. I see in Colin Powell a man of liberal values as well as conservative.
We need both liberal and conservative values. You might point to shortcomings and failures in government and society, but look also at the overall picture and at the interacting roles and at our very significant successes.
A "perfect world" is theoretically possible, is it not?
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@Deiter I disagree with your assessment of conservatives and liberals. Something tells me however that your opinion is cast in stone and it would be useless to argue. Am I right?
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@Deiter I disagree with your assessment of conservatives and liberals. Something tells me however that your opinion is cast in stone and it would be useless to argue. Am I right?
A "perfect world" is theoretically possible, is it not?
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
Sounds like your idea of a perfect world is one rid of us conservatives.
Deiter comments on Jun 29, 2019:
The major difference between Conservatives and Liberals as I see it is that Liberals can imagine Utopia and Conservatives only want to prepare for Dystopia. This preparation includes not wanting to pay taxes or bear responsibility for the common good, to only see everything from public services to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
Sounds like your idea of a perfect world is one rid of us conservatives.
Maybe I'm looking for the impossible.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO your lack of understanding is totally rational. My college training in biology is limited to a single class in botany where evolution was presented as a cut and dried, fully understood theory, not subject to further arguments. The DNA molecule had recently been discovered and biologists were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@Piratefish I’m sure that I’ll never understand it, and I doubt if anyone in the world understands it.
I don’t see how it’s possible for conscious awareness to be produced by matter. The very idea seems absurd to me. I lean toward thinking that consciousness is primary, and everything else has to be understood in terms of consciousness. Have you read about the conscious realism of cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO your lack of understanding is totally rational. My college training in biology is limited to a single class in botany where evolution was presented as a cut and dried, fully understood theory, not subject to further arguments. The DNA molecule had recently been discovered and biologists were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@Piratefish I’m sure that I’ll never understand it, and I doubt if anyone in the world understands it.
I don’t see how it’s possible for conscious awareness to be produced by matter. The very idea seems absurd to me. I lean toward thinking that consciousness is primary, and everything else has to be understood in terms of consciousness. Have you read about the conscious realism of cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman?
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@LiterateHiker Read the slave narratives and you’ll see. You can get them from Gutenberg Press.
The news media and entertainment industry in this country make a lot of money keeping people frightened, angry and aggrieved. They accomplish that by dividing people along racial, religious sectional, and cultural lines, constantly exaggerating and telling outright lies. Politicians take up the drum roll, hoping to capture your vote. It’s all a big whoop-de-doo over little.
There actually are some social issues that need attention. One is health care costs—illegal immigration is another. Excessive government spending and public debt need addressing. The country has become so divided and distraught that it is impossible to hold any kind of reasonable and productive discussion. For example, Republicans have been so demonized in the press that just to say that you voted Republican will get you accused of racism by some. They might imply that you are an ignorant, hypocritical EVANGELICAL. Oh my God, horror of horrors. Tell someone that you are from Alabama or Mississippi and they’ll come apart at the seams.
This country would be better served if the media would foster mutual respect and unity. Follow the advice of MLK.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@LiterateHiker Read the slave narratives and you’ll see. You can get them from Gutenberg Press.
The news media and entertainment industry in this country make a lot of money keeping people frightened, angry and aggrieved. They accomplish that by dividing people along racial, religious sectional, and cultural lines, constantly exaggerating and telling outright lies. Politicians take up the drum roll, hoping to capture your vote. It’s all a big whoop-de-doo over little.
There actually are some social issues that need attention. One is health care costs—illegal immigration is another. Excessive government spending and public debt need addressing. The country has become so divided and distraught that it is impossible to hold any kind of reasonable and productive discussion. For example, Republicans have been so demonized in the press that just to say that you voted Republican will get you accused of racism by some. They might imply that you are an ignorant, hypocritical EVANGELICAL. Oh my God, horror of horrors. Tell someone that you are from Alabama or Mississippi and they’ll come apart at the seams.
This country would be better served if the media would foster mutual respect and unity. Follow the advice of MLK.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@LiterateHiker Yes, I read that book long ago. I’ve read various books by Black authors also. I’ve got the collected essays and memoirs of Albert Murray in which he describes growing up near Mobile, and he describes his return there in later life as well as travels across the South. Read Murray and you’ll get a balanced and intelligent perspective.
I recently read Maya Angelou‘s “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings”, again, an inside, balanced perspective. I downloaded a collection of slave narratives assembled in the 1930’s by the federal government when many former slaves were still alive. Read those narratives and you’ll learn a good deal about life as a slave—it’s advantages and it’s down sides. You’ll hear about it first hand as it really was.
In no way do I deny that there is a history of racism in this country, or that many injustices have been served to Blacks. But like Murray, I try to look at the whole picture, not just at that hellish spectacle created by the left-leaning news media.that has established such a one-sided and exaggerated perspective in the minds of so many.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@LiterateHiker Yes, I read that book long ago. I’ve read various books by Black authors also. I’ve got the collected essays and memoirs of Albert Murray in which he describes growing up near Mobile, and he describes his return there in later life as well as travels across the South. Read Murray and you’ll get a balanced and intelligent perspective.
I recently read Maya Angelou‘s “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings”, again, an inside, balanced perspective. I downloaded a collection of slave narratives assembled in the 1930’s by the federal government when many former slaves were still alive. Read those narratives and you’ll learn a good deal about life as a slave—it’s advantages and it’s down sides. You’ll hear about it first hand as it really was.
In no way do I deny that there is a history of racism in this country, or that many injustices have been served to Blacks. But like Murray, I try to look at the whole picture, not just at that hellish spectacle created by the left-leaning news media.that has established such a one-sided and exaggerated perspective in the minds of so many.
Maybe I'm looking for the impossible.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO your lack of understanding is totally rational. My college training in biology is limited to a single class in botany where evolution was presented as a cut and dried, fully understood theory, not subject to further arguments. The DNA molecule had recently been discovered and biologists were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@Piratefish It does seem very complex and mysterious. You have a living cell with the dna molecule lying there all coiled up, encoded with all these instructions. It seems improbable that those complex instructions could be obeyed by the cell mechanistically. It would be like a city building itself based on a set of plans rolled up in a construction shack somewhere. It almost seems necessary that a conscious mind read those plans. I doubt it can be understood in mechanistic terms.
Rupert Sheldrake has some ideas on the subject but of course he is ridiculed by the science establishment.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO your lack of understanding is totally rational. My college training in biology is limited to a single class in botany where evolution was presented as a cut and dried, fully understood theory, not subject to further arguments. The DNA molecule had recently been discovered and biologists were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 29, 2019:
@Piratefish It does seem very complex and mysterious. You have a living cell with the dna molecule lying there all coiled up, encoded with all these instructions. It seems improbable that those complex instructions could be obeyed by the cell mechanistically. It would be like a city building itself based on a set of plans rolled up in a construction shack somewhere. It almost seems necessary that a conscious mind read those plans. I doubt it can be understood in mechanistic terms.
Rupert Sheldrake has some ideas on the subject but of course he is ridiculed by the science establishment.
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker You continue to build up a very bleak and terrifying image of the South and things southern. All I’m saying is that there are shades of grey. Why is that insulting? What is racist about that statement?
I have lived in close proximity with Black people for most of my life, seeing and talking with them most days. There was never anything terrible or horrifying going on where I was that I was aware of. I can remember when some families, Black and White were moving out of the neighborhood back in the fifties. Economic conditions were hard and the increasing mechanization of agriculture meant fewer jobs. People moved to cities where they could find jobs. Many of those cities were southern cities.
Someone should write a book about the people who stayed put and found success and happiness at home. That would be most people I think, but it is more dramatic to write about racism and terror and fleeing into the arms of liberal northerners. Sells a lot more books.
I’m trying to download the book you recommended. I’m very curious.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker You continue to build up a very bleak and terrifying image of the South and things southern. All I’m saying is that there are shades of grey. Why is that insulting? What is racist about that statement?
I have lived in close proximity with Black people for most of my life, seeing and talking with them most days. There was never anything terrible or horrifying going on where I was that I was aware of. I can remember when some families, Black and White were moving out of the neighborhood back in the fifties. Economic conditions were hard and the increasing mechanization of agriculture meant fewer jobs. People moved to cities where they could find jobs. Many of those cities were southern cities.
Someone should write a book about the people who stayed put and found success and happiness at home. That would be most people I think, but it is more dramatic to write about racism and terror and fleeing into the arms of liberal northerners. Sells a lot more books.
I’m trying to download the book you recommended. I’m very curious.
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker My hero, one of the greatest humans to walk the earth in the twentieth century was Maxie Maultsby Jr., from nearby Pensacola. a Black man, he attended college in Alabama and went on to get his PHD in psychiatry up north somewhere.
Dr. Maultsby founded the Rational Behavior Therapy method of psychological counseling, which is widely used and hailed around the world.
It is the kind of positive, uplifting story with which I like to fill my mind. His book, “Help Yourself to Happiness” certainly helped me in a dramatic way.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker My hero, one of the greatest humans to walk the earth in the twentieth century was Maxie Maultsby Jr., from nearby Pensacola. a Black man, he attended college in Alabama and went on to get his PHD in psychiatry up north somewhere.
Dr. Maultsby founded the Rational Behavior Therapy method of psychological counseling, which is widely used and hailed around the world.
It is the kind of positive, uplifting story with which I like to fill my mind. His book, “Help Yourself to Happiness” certainly helped me in a dramatic way.
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker I’ll be on the lookout for that book. I think however that you have a rather one-sided and exaggerated perspective. Growing up here in Alabama, I was acquainted with a lot of Blacks, many of whom were well respected in the community.
It’s easy to build up a horrifying picture in your mind based on a few anecdotes but real life is generally in shades of grey.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker I’ll be on the lookout for that book. I think however that you have a rather one-sided and exaggerated perspective. Growing up here in Alabama, I was acquainted with a lot of Blacks, many of whom were well respected in the community.
It’s easy to build up a horrifying picture in your mind based on a few anecdotes but real life is generally in shades of grey.
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker Yes, it used to be that way, but times have changed to a degree. I think that in the future we’ll see more and more merging of races, and no one will think anything of it.
I did not intend to single her out for denigration—it’s just that she’s, after all, nothing but another politician and can be expected to play her cards like all the other politicians. I find it hard to feel much sympathy for her narrative, growing up in California with affluent, professional parents. BTW, I thought California was supposed to be a paragon of liberality, but now I learn they were segregated, just like Alabama.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker Yes, it used to be that way, but times have changed to a degree. I think that in the future we’ll see more and more merging of races, and no one will think anything of it.
I did not intend to single her out for denigration—it’s just that she’s, after all, nothing but another politician and can be expected to play her cards like all the other politicians. I find it hard to feel much sympathy for her narrative, growing up in California with affluent, professional parents. BTW, I thought California was supposed to be a paragon of liberality, but now I learn they were segregated, just like Alabama.
Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage at Chaotic Democratic Debate
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker According to Wikipedia:
“Her father, Donald Harris, is a Stanford University economics professor who emigrated from Jamaica in 1961 for graduate study in economics at University of California, Berkeley.[5][6] Recalling the lives of his grandmothers, Donald Harris wrote that one was related to a plantation and slave owner while the other had unknown ancestry.[7]”
A person’s ancestry should be of little significance IMO, Of greater significance is the fact that both her parents have been successful professionals. I doubt many Blacks sympathize with her victim narrative.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
Harris appears to be an astute, capable person, but with not much Black African ancestry. As a politician though she can be expected to play that smidgen to the hilt. I’m surprised that she was relegated to a segregated Black school as a child in California.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@LiterateHiker According to Wikipedia:
“Her father, Donald Harris, is a Stanford University economics professor who emigrated from Jamaica in 1961 for graduate study in economics at University of California, Berkeley.[5][6] Recalling the lives of his grandmothers, Donald Harris wrote that one was related to a plantation and slave owner while the other had unknown ancestry.[7]”
A person’s ancestry should be of little significance IMO, Of greater significance is the fact that both her parents have been successful professionals. I doubt many Blacks sympathize with her victim narrative.
The country cannot rely on states to legislate themselves when it come to Civil Rights.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO it is not a matter of reliance on the states. Our civil rights are enshrined in the US constitution and states can not legally circumvent the constitution. I’m not convinced that politicians at the national level are more benevolent than those at the state level and can be better relied upon....
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@t1nick Great. We need teachers like that.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO it is not a matter of reliance on the states. Our civil rights are enshrined in the US constitution and states can not legally circumvent the constitution. I’m not convinced that politicians at the national level are more benevolent than those at the state level and can be better relied upon....
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@t1nick Great. We need teachers like that.
The country cannot rely on states to legislate themselves when it come to Civil Rights.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO it is not a matter of reliance on the states. Our civil rights are enshrined in the US constitution and states can not legally circumvent the constitution. I’m not convinced that politicians at the national level are more benevolent than those at the state level and can be better relied upon....
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@t1nick Even if you are going to “scream on”, I think a person should address racism in his own neighborhood rather than off somewhere else, and address it in the present, not in a historical context.
https://www.google.com/search?q=racism+in+new+mexico&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari#ip=1
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 28, 2019:
IMO it is not a matter of reliance on the states. Our civil rights are enshrined in the US constitution and states can not legally circumvent the constitution. I’m not convinced that politicians at the national level are more benevolent than those at the state level and can be better relied upon....
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 28, 2019:
@t1nick Even if you are going to “scream on”, I think a person should address racism in his own neighborhood rather than off somewhere else, and address it in the present, not in a historical context.
https://www.google.com/search?q=racism+in+new+mexico&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari#ip=1
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
James00346 comments on Jun 26, 2019:
" "church tax": a surcharge of between 8 and 9% of the income tax."
Churches don't pay taxes in the USA. They are a billion dollar, tax exempt industry. If they want to influence politics, they shouldn't be tax exempt.
Also, which church? Who's god?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 27, 2019:
The tax is collected by the government from church members and paid to the church I believe.
I am not advocating any such scheme here, nor do I propose that we have an official religion. Our system is working well, despite cries that churches are taking over government.
James00346 comments on Jun 26, 2019:
" "church tax": a surcharge of between 8 and 9% of the income tax."
Churches don't pay taxes in the USA. They are a billion dollar, tax exempt industry. If they want to influence politics, they shouldn't be tax exempt.
Also, which church? Who's god?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 27, 2019:
The tax is collected by the government from church members and paid to the church I believe.
I am not advocating any such scheme here, nor do I propose that we have an official religion. Our system is working well, despite cries that churches are taking over government.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
273kelvin comments on Jun 26, 2019:
It is the age old question of "Would you rather have them inside the tent pissing out or outside the tent pissing in?" In the UK the church has very little hold or influence on govt. It does have a few guaranteed crossbench MPs in the lords (our senate). They do sometimes argue for things like a ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@thinktwice Sounds like you had great parents.
273kelvin comments on Jun 26, 2019:
It is the age old question of "Would you rather have them inside the tent pissing out or outside the tent pissing in?" In the UK the church has very little hold or influence on govt. It does have a few guaranteed crossbench MPs in the lords (our senate). They do sometimes argue for things like a ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@thinktwice Sounds like you had great parents.
On living by your principles:[brainpickings.org]
Stilltrying1964 comments on Jun 26, 2019:
Very interesting article. Nice connection between the mentality of 1939 Germany and the jackass who occupies the Oval Office presently. I was talking with a coworker / jackass supporter this morning. I analogized trump to Cosby. When Mueller said there was 1 offense of obstruction, maybe so maybe ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
What will you do if he is re-elected?
Stilltrying1964 comments on Jun 26, 2019:
Very interesting article. Nice connection between the mentality of 1939 Germany and the jackass who occupies the Oval Office presently. I was talking with a coworker / jackass supporter this morning. I analogized trump to Cosby. When Mueller said there was 1 offense of obstruction, maybe so maybe ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
What will you do if he is re-elected?
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
Duchess_Nyx comments on Jun 25, 2019:
"said by some" to be infiltrating and taking over? We know they are. They routinely say themselves they are.
We're not hypersensitive and it's not "for some reason". We're being vigilant because we understand what separation of church and state is and because it's necessary.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@OwlInASack I clicked on your link. The group appears to be rather small and without much influence.
“In 2019, a coalition of 43 religious and allied organizations, including the National Council of Churches, the Anti-Defamation League, the Hindu American Foundation, and the Center for Inquiry, issued a statement directed at state lawmakers opposing the Project and similar legislative efforts.[11][12]”
Some of the project’s positions might arguably have merit. I do not see where they are advocating for an end to the separation of church and state, or for a takeover of government by religion.
Duchess_Nyx comments on Jun 25, 2019:
"said by some" to be infiltrating and taking over? We know they are. They routinely say themselves they are.
We're not hypersensitive and it's not "for some reason". We're being vigilant because we understand what separation of church and state is and because it's necessary.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@OwlInASack I clicked on your link. The group appears to be rather small and without much influence.
“In 2019, a coalition of 43 religious and allied organizations, including the National Council of Churches, the Anti-Defamation League, the Hindu American Foundation, and the Center for Inquiry, issued a statement directed at state lawmakers opposing the Project and similar legislative efforts.[11][12]”
Some of the project’s positions might arguably have merit. I do not see where they are advocating for an end to the separation of church and state, or for a takeover of government by religion.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
t1nick comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Your point? Are you implying people stop complaining about the encroachment of religion within our government, or that we should adopt a national religion. Good points in your discussion, but you failed to state your desired outcome, as it seems you are trying to make a specific point.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@OwlInASack So it’s a conspiracy? Hmm...
The media has converted the word “evangelical” into a slur. What about Catholics? They are calling for abortions, right?
t1nick comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Your point? Are you implying people stop complaining about the encroachment of religion within our government, or that we should adopt a national religion. Good points in your discussion, but you failed to state your desired outcome, as it seems you are trying to make a specific point.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@OwlInASack So it’s a conspiracy? Hmm...
The media has converted the word “evangelical” into a slur. What about Catholics? They are calling for abortions, right?
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
273kelvin comments on Jun 26, 2019:
It is the age old question of "Would you rather have them inside the tent pissing out or outside the tent pissing in?" In the UK the church has very little hold or influence on govt. It does have a few guaranteed crossbench MPs in the lords (our senate). They do sometimes argue for things like a ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
I feel that our students would benefit from that type of religious training. I understand “Comparative Religions” is taught in some schools. I’d like to see also some introductory philosophy taught to high-schoolers.
273kelvin comments on Jun 26, 2019:
It is the age old question of "Would you rather have them inside the tent pissing out or outside the tent pissing in?" In the UK the church has very little hold or influence on govt. It does have a few guaranteed crossbench MPs in the lords (our senate). They do sometimes argue for things like a ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
I feel that our students would benefit from that type of religious training. I understand “Comparative Religions” is taught in some schools. I’d like to see also some introductory philosophy taught to high-schoolers.
Is the universe infinite?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 25, 2019:
According to quantum gravity theory space is not the smooth infinite expanse that we think. Space consists of a finite number of granules of planck length size. Whenever we formulate questions involving distance or location we are basing our questions on our limited way of perceiving reality, the ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@Fernapple Very good point.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 25, 2019:
According to quantum gravity theory space is not the smooth infinite expanse that we think. Space consists of a finite number of granules of planck length size. Whenever we formulate questions involving distance or location we are basing our questions on our limited way of perceiving reality, the ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 26, 2019:
@Fernapple Very good point.
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith Great! Congratulations.
Maybe we should form a recreational math group, just for fun. What do you think?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith Great! Congratulations.
Maybe we should form a recreational math group, just for fun. What do you think?
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith I don’t remember how to solve it myself. It does boil down to a quadratic equation. One solution is for the ladder leaning up high and the other for it low. I could never do it with trigonometry.
If you google “ladder problem” you’ll find the answer I think. Of course there’s no fun in that.
I ought not give out problems I can’t work myself, aye?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith I don’t remember how to solve it myself. It does boil down to a quadratic equation. One solution is for the ladder leaning up high and the other for it low. I could never do it with trigonometry.
If you google “ladder problem” you’ll find the answer I think. Of course there’s no fun in that.
I ought not give out problems I can’t work myself, aye?
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
VictoriaNotes comments on Jun 25, 2019:
If the U.S. were to adopt Christianity as its national religion, forgoing separation of church and state, do you think it would curtail political religious right movements (flushed with cash) who are currently reshaping the legislative landscape?
I'm skeptical. It could likely give them more ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
It would not satisfy the minority who want more religion in government. I do not advocate giving in to their demands, but I doubt they are much of a threat. In a strongly worded resolution the Southern Baptist Convention recently endorsed the separation of church and state. They are the largest evangelical group in the country.
VictoriaNotes comments on Jun 25, 2019:
If the U.S. were to adopt Christianity as its national religion, forgoing separation of church and state, do you think it would curtail political religious right movements (flushed with cash) who are currently reshaping the legislative landscape?
I'm skeptical. It could likely give them more ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
It would not satisfy the minority who want more religion in government. I do not advocate giving in to their demands, but I doubt they are much of a threat. In a strongly worded resolution the Southern Baptist Convention recently endorsed the separation of church and state. They are the largest evangelical group in the country.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
Matias comments on Jun 25, 2019:
A lot of people in Germany, not only atheists, are quite unhappy about the close connexions between Churches and state. Just two examples: the state collects the "church tax" as if a was a regular state tax like income tax. And a lot of tax payer's money is given to the Catholic Church as a ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
Your inside view is greatly appreciated.
Matias comments on Jun 25, 2019:
A lot of people in Germany, not only atheists, are quite unhappy about the close connexions between Churches and state. Just two examples: the state collects the "church tax" as if a was a regular state tax like income tax. And a lot of tax payer's money is given to the Catholic Church as a ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
Your inside view is greatly appreciated.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
Duchess_Nyx comments on Jun 25, 2019:
"said by some" to be infiltrating and taking over? We know they are. They routinely say themselves they are.
We're not hypersensitive and it's not "for some reason". We're being vigilant because we understand what separation of church and state is and because it's necessary.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
Can you supply a source that these “they” are planning to take over government? You might find some very tiny minority that would say such a thing but they are outliers with practically no support.
Duchess_Nyx comments on Jun 25, 2019:
"said by some" to be infiltrating and taking over? We know they are. They routinely say themselves they are.
We're not hypersensitive and it's not "for some reason". We're being vigilant because we understand what separation of church and state is and because it's necessary.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
Can you supply a source that these “they” are planning to take over government? You might find some very tiny minority that would say such a thing but they are outliers with practically no support.
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith Either way it amounts to the same problem. For purposes of the problem assume the ladder is leaning high up on the wall.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith Either way it amounts to the same problem. For purposes of the problem assume the ladder is leaning high up on the wall.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
t1nick comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Your point? Are you implying people stop complaining about the encroachment of religion within our government, or that we should adopt a national religion. Good points in your discussion, but you failed to state your desired outcome, as it seems you are trying to make a specific point.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
I fully support the concept of the separation of church and state as enshrined in the constitution. But all it says is that: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof , or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press , or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
My point is that the sky is not falling because our money says “In God we Trust”, nor because a cross is permitted to stand on public land in Maryland, nor because Maryland was named after a Catholic Saint, nor because a Presbyterian Church and school in Alabama is allowed a police force. None of those things are about the establishment of a religion. It is impossible to rid government and the public sector of every trace of religion and to raise hell over every such issue is a waste of time and energy.
If some religious or atheistic group actually tries to usurp power I’ll be there fighting them—with guns if necessary, but for now, go with the flow.
t1nick comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Your point? Are you implying people stop complaining about the encroachment of religion within our government, or that we should adopt a national religion. Good points in your discussion, but you failed to state your desired outcome, as it seems you are trying to make a specific point.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
I fully support the concept of the separation of church and state as enshrined in the constitution. But all it says is that: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof , or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press , or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
My point is that the sky is not falling because our money says “In God we Trust”, nor because a cross is permitted to stand on public land in Maryland, nor because Maryland was named after a Catholic Saint, nor because a Presbyterian Church and school in Alabama is allowed a police force. None of those things are about the establishment of a religion. It is impossible to rid government and the public sector of every trace of religion and to raise hell over every such issue is a waste of time and energy.
If some religious or atheistic group actually tries to usurp power I’ll be there fighting them—with guns if necessary, but for now, go with the flow.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
NicoleCadmium comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Yes, the Queen is the head of the Church of England. But her powers over Parliament are vestigial. If she exercised any of them to veto the government's wishes, all hell would break loose. She has no control over the political process in this country and her involvement is entirely ceremonial. I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@NicoleCadmium “A single, and I suspect somewhat historic example proves nothing about the current situation.”
Please don’t spoil my amusement with unnecessary facts. :-)
NicoleCadmium comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Yes, the Queen is the head of the Church of England. But her powers over Parliament are vestigial. If she exercised any of them to veto the government's wishes, all hell would break loose. She has no control over the political process in this country and her involvement is entirely ceremonial. I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@NicoleCadmium “A single, and I suspect somewhat historic example proves nothing about the current situation.”
Please don’t spoil my amusement with unnecessary facts. :-)
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith It is just a 12’ long ladder. No trickiness here.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith It is just a 12’ long ladder. No trickiness here.
We in the US seem to be having a bitter fight over the issue of the separation of church and state, ...
NicoleCadmium comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Yes, the Queen is the head of the Church of England. But her powers over Parliament are vestigial. If she exercised any of them to veto the government's wishes, all hell would break loose. She has no control over the political process in this country and her involvement is entirely ceremonial. I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
It is amusing to me that the celebrated physicist, Paul Dirac had trouble getting hired by a university in England because of his atheism, but he got on at Florida State which is right in the middle of Cracker country, in the heart of the so-called Bible Belt. He taught there for many years and is buried there.
A lot of what you hear from the media is nothing but hype.
NicoleCadmium comments on Jun 25, 2019:
Yes, the Queen is the head of the Church of England. But her powers over Parliament are vestigial. If she exercised any of them to veto the government's wishes, all hell would break loose. She has no control over the political process in this country and her involvement is entirely ceremonial. I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
It is amusing to me that the celebrated physicist, Paul Dirac had trouble getting hired by a university in England because of his atheism, but he got on at Florida State which is right in the middle of Cracker country, in the heart of the so-called Bible Belt. He taught there for many years and is buried there.
A lot of what you hear from the media is nothing but hype.
Involved in advocacy groups?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda Do you have to be a virgin to live in the Virgin Islands?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda Do you have to be a virgin to live in the Virgin Islands?
Involved in advocacy groups?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda I’m not sold on that.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda I’m not sold on that.
Involved in advocacy groups?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda What countries have it right?
Certainly not England:
“While the United Kingdom as a whole has no official religion, the Church of England remains the state church of its largest constituent country, England. The Monarch of the United Kingdom is the Supreme Governor of the Church, and accordingly, only a Anglican may inherit the British throne. This was enshrined into law by 1701 Act of Settlement.“ (Wikipedia)
Yet just about every world religion thrives in England. The official Church of Scotland is the Presbyterian, yet other religions exist there also.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda What countries have it right?
Certainly not England:
“While the United Kingdom as a whole has no official religion, the Church of England remains the state church of its largest constituent country, England. The Monarch of the United Kingdom is the Supreme Governor of the Church, and accordingly, only a Anglican may inherit the British throne. This was enshrined into law by 1701 Act of Settlement.“ (Wikipedia)
Yet just about every world religion thrives in England. The official Church of Scotland is the Presbyterian, yet other religions exist there also.
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith No.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@GuyKeith No.
Involved in advocacy groups?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda I don’t know what more protection we need. We are free to practice any religion of our choosing, or none, and government is not supposed to favor any particular religion.
How could it be improved?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
In the US anyway it would be advocating for what we already have. There might be minor threats and infractions from time to time and it is a worthy cause to guard against those infractions—challenge them in court perhaps. The ACLU is well established and would be a great venue in that regard.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 25, 2019:
@Allamanda I don’t know what more protection we need. We are free to practice any religion of our choosing, or none, and government is not supposed to favor any particular religion.
How could it be improved?
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@GuyKeith No, the 12’ ladder is leaning at an angle, and is pushed up against the 4’ box. The ladder extends about 8 or 9 feet vertically. I’m not sure I can remember how to solve it. It’s harder than it looks.
Oh shoot! I had it wrong—fixed now.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@GuyKeith No, the 12’ ladder is leaning at an angle, and is pushed up against the 4’ box. The ladder extends about 8 or 9 feet vertically. I’m not sure I can remember how to solve it. It’s harder than it looks.
Oh shoot! I had it wrong—fixed now.
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
I get C=1.09144
First number in sequence is 0.6180
Last number in sequence is 1.6180
Nice problem.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@GuyKeith I think Europeans use commas as decimal points instead of periods. Gave me pause also.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
I get C=1.09144
First number in sequence is 0.6180
Last number in sequence is 1.6180
Nice problem.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@GuyKeith I think Europeans use commas as decimal points instead of periods. Gave me pause also.
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@GuyKeith And since none of the information is truly needed we can filter out the whole problem, right? :-)
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
Here’s one for you:
A 12 foot ladder is leaning against a wall and is pushed against a 4 foot cubic box, touching it along one edge. The floor is level, wall vertical.
How high up the wall does the ladder extend?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@GuyKeith And since none of the information is truly needed we can filter out the whole problem, right? :-)
Find the constant (.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
I get C=1.09144
First number in sequence is 0.6180
Last number in sequence is 1.6180
Nice problem.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@InSaNe_97 I solved for C^11-C^5.5=1 on my calculator using iteration. That’s because S12=S1C^11 and S6.5=S1C^5.5 where S1 is the first number and S12 is the last.
I’m very worried about that S6.5, the middle of the series. Is that legit? We are turning your list of numbers into a continuous function. Nothing wrong with that, but I feel unsure about how that function would be expressed.
f(x)=f(1)C^(x-1) I suppose. Maybe it’s ok after all. f of x comes out distorted on my screen???
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
I get C=1.09144
First number in sequence is 0.6180
Last number in sequence is 1.6180
Nice problem.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 24, 2019:
@InSaNe_97 I solved for C^11-C^5.5=1 on my calculator using iteration. That’s because S12=S1C^11 and S6.5=S1C^5.5 where S1 is the first number and S12 is the last.
I’m very worried about that S6.5, the middle of the series. Is that legit? We are turning your list of numbers into a continuous function. Nothing wrong with that, but I feel unsure about how that function would be expressed.
f(x)=f(1)C^(x-1) I suppose. Maybe it’s ok after all. f of x comes out distorted on my screen???
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