"The myth of religious violence"
This is the title of a very interesting book by William T. Cavanaugh.
That does not mean that there is no religious violence. Nor does it mean that when religious people kill or wage war, they do so only "in the name of religion", that is, religion is peaceful per se, and is only abused in the pursuit of other interests.
The "myth" of religious violence is twofold:
(1-) That religions, especially monotheistic ones, have a greater tendency to violence than secular ideologies and institutions.
(2-) That it makes sense to distinguish between "religious" and "secular" in this case; that there is such a thing as a specific religious violence in the first place.
One could make the following distinction: secular violence is instrumental, it is used to achieve an objective to represent one's own interests. If the goal is reached, for example the gain of an area, then the violence is over. - - Religious violence, on the other hand, is always about the big picture, about Good against Evil, about destroying, annihilating the opponent.
But as Cavanaugh beautifully shows, this distinction cannot be uphold. Certainly there are wars, which are about concrete goals, but then there are also "secular" conflicts, which are about good against evil.
Basically, every war has an inner tendency to become a fight for the last things. Even in secular wars, the enemy is declared a "devilish being", he is demonstrated in order to close own own ranks. The brutality of drug gangs in Latin America, for example, is in no way inferior to that of ISIS.
In the end, this is my conclusion, EVERYTHING can be seen as absolute, EVERYTHING can be "idolized" and thus become the starting point for a cosmic struggle for Good against Evil: God, the nation, the Aryan race, blood and soil, the proletariat, power, money, the flag, honor...
When it comes to violence, the distinction religious/secular is more or less obsolete. People commit the worst crimes for the most diverse reasons.
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Maybe I'll get the book, sounds thought provoking?
I think monotheism evolved and was almost built for empire building. Monotheism gives an excuse to entirely dominate other humans bc they're evil. You can annihilate and loot entire cities when God tells you to. You don't have to feel bad about killing children, which might decrease PTSD bc you're killing hellspawn.
It's ok to steal their children and even forcibly take women bc you're saving them from evil.
Pretty soon, the next cities understand they can convert or die which makes conquest easier. I think pagan tradition within Christianity are from loose compromises when societies "converted" instead of being destroyed.
educatedredneck
Level 7
June 30, 2018
0
Interesting idea. People who love discord will find one way or another to divide people into “us vs them” and religion is only one of many ways. That alone is not sufficient reason to devalue or falsify religion.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
June 29, 2018
2
Yes it is. And any number of other reasons are valid to devalue religion. It doesn't need falsifying - its followers do that.
@GoldenDoll I disagree. Dividing people into groups does not invalidate any of the groups.
There are forms of religion that are beneficial, uplifting, and truthful. Some religions require no belief or faith. Also there are many, many people who have religious experiences privately.
You are stereotyping. The religious impulse is is the highest attribute of humanity.
@WilliamFleming Which religions are "beneficial, uplifting & truthful"? Let's have some examples. And your last comment makes me think you're on the wrong site.
@GoldenDoll Unitarianism requires no belief and has many atheist members. The Society of Friends requires no belief or faith and promotes only peace and harmony. In general, New Thought groups such as Unity and Centers for Spiritual Living require no belief and do no harm. They promote only peace, harmony and wellbeing. Buddhism does not speak of God, and it helps people in living a joyous life. There are also the religious sentiments of individuals who have religious or mystical experiences and who do not belong to any organized religious group. A prominent example was Albert Einstein:
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”
So far as belonging on this site, there is no requirement that a person has to be an atheist or agnostic. I do not call myself either because I lean toward the concept of universal consciousness, which could be labeled as God. The deep questions of reality are profound mysteries, out of the venue of humanity, and not explained by any “ism”, certainty not atheism. However, I strongly reject Christianity as presented by traditional churches.
I enjoy this site and I feel st home here because of the many intelligent, courageous and empathetic people who participate. A diversity of opinion is very important for any forum IMO.
@WilliamFleming Do you not keep up with international news? Go tell the victims of the murderous Buddhists in Myanmar that religious violence is a myth. Einstein's comment went way over your head - he's explaining why he's NOT religious. The other groups you mention are just meeting groups, & as you admit there are many atheists who attend, your arrogance in referring to them as 'religious' groups is astounding. As is your comment about 'the religious impulse being the highest attribute of humanity'. How disgusting. We get religion pushed down our throats every day - we don't need it on this site. This is a place to get away from the arrogance of 'the believer' & enjoy our atheism which you dismiss so lightly. God bless.
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