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"Reason divides and separates, belief and mysticism unite. In most people the desire to belong is greater than the desire to understand, hence the popularity of cults and religions and the lack of the role of reason in human affairs."
Thomas Szasz

ASTRALMAX 8 Sep 10
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I disagree. Reason gives us the Calculus. Can it be said that there are British, American, Indian, Arabian or Chinese mathematics? Is not Calculus the same, no matter the country in which it is studied? The beauty of science is that it proves--whether in Bangkok, Baghdad, Singapore, Dehli, Tokyo, London or Boston. The problem with so-called belief in what may be called, the metaphysical, is that cultural bastardizations are inevitable.

@Matias I do not agree that reason appeals only to the technical level. I have seen reason guide our hearts, and assist in the development of our emotional intelligence. When, for example, we teach children why it is wrong to hurt other children, we ask them to consider what it would be like for them to be injured in this way. In other words, we appeal to their empathy, using analogy, reasoned discourse and Socratic questioning. They usually get it, and they grow. When the heart is informed by reason, it can consider options and arrive at solutions to the difficulties that divide us, more equitably and lasting than mere emotions alone, showing us a superior path toward building meaningful communities.

@Matias “Now you tacitly shift the argument…”

I meant no deception. My comment was in response to the assertion that “reason only unites on a technical level,” a notion with which I clearly disagree. It is my belief that the two—reason and emotion—inform one another, are aware of one another, and are not silo’ed (isolated) in our brains, nor in practice.

“It is an illusion to believe that reason can give us more than formal logical rules for deduction or inference.”

Upon what do you base this assertion? Do you believe we have two distinct minds? Two unconnected thought processes, operating in parallel, neither aware of the other’s presence?

BTW, my reference to Socratic questioning (or reasoning) was to the generic way it is used today. Namely, probing questions which cause the one being questioned to examine, and even reexamine, his/her thinking. Nothing more than that.

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Community coalesces around shared experiences and beliefs and objectives. Religion uses dogma and ritual to support that. Critical thinking isn't about experience, it is about thoughts, and so is inherently a private and not collective activity. However, there are lots of ways to form community. My wife and I are together because, among other things, her experience of growing up with a crazy mother enables her to understand my experience of being married to my crazy first wife, and vice-versa, and her being widowed helps her understand me being widowed and vice-versa. We formed a relationship around those and other shared experiences. No mysticism needed.

I don't see how reason is itself a source of division. I would expect that in the main, reason would lead to intersubjective truth which is something that all people deploying reason can agree on. Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius, period, end of story. There's no room to disagree on that. There is of course no such thing as 100% objectively provable truth, so there are a lot of things that aren't as clear cut as the boiling point of water at sea level. But beliefs formed from reason and logic are going to be FAR more consistent than beliefs randomly made up and subscribed to by various conjurers. They also should not be argued based on what people feel or wish to be true, but on what IS true.

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I have to agree , there seems to be truth in this statement . Tell anyone what they don't want to hear and reason goes out the window .

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