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I'm having an interesting debate with someone on-line. This individual hasn't declared whether he/she be a Theist or an Atheist but the debate is about whether or not Jesus, Biblically and/or historically, existed.
This is an interesting proposition as my opponent quotes Bart Ehrman as being a Jesus historicist whereas I myself am an avowed Jesus mythicist.
Bart Ehrman has spent most of his academic career disputing the authenticity of the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles (only six of the thirteen Letters of Paul are considered authentic whilst the other seven are considered forgeries [there are scholarly propositions that the whole thirteen are forgeries]). My opponent only offers Bart Ehrman's academic qualifications and asserts that as all of academia professes that Jesus did actually exist, then I must be alone in my position and that is proof that I am wrong. I have debated the Flavius Testimonium (Flavius Josephus), the writings of Tacitus, letter No 10 of Pliny the Younger, and all of the tenuous 'evidence' of Jesus' existence outside of the Bible. I have enlightened him/her of the manipulation by Philo of Alexandria and Eusebius of Caesarea (aka Eusebius Pamphili) on Emperor Constantine and the first Council of Nicea and also the Council of Constantinople and how Christianity and Jesus were man made by the aforementioned and that the Holy Trinity was agreed upon by the Councils as the only way to reconcile the problems in scripture. I have examined the Pauline Epistles and Paul only proffers Jesus as a celestial being without existence. Bart Ehrman in his book Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth uses the Bible as his source evidence for the proof of Jesus' existence as we are all agreed that outside of the Bible there is no inference to the existence of Jesus other than which has been forged and interpolated into the writings of Flavius Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger etc. So Ehrman uses the Bible as a source yet has spent most of his academic life showing that the Bible consists of texts that refer to Jesus having been forged, interpolated, manipulated etc. So confirmation bias and circular reasoning at its best - using something that has been discredited as proof of what you want it to say whilst it actually doesn't. Having read Earl Doherty's The Jesus Puzzle, Robert M. Price's The Case Against The Case For Jesus, Richard Carrier's Proving History: Bayes's Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus, and his On The Historicity Of Jesus, Raphael Lataster's There Was No Jesus, There Is No God, and his Jesus Did Not Exist: A Debate Among Atheists, I am very firm on my position as the matter of Jesus being purely mythical and didn't actually exist either historically or Biblically. So I know I am on foundations of rock and not on foundations of sand (Matthew 4:24-27).

So my question is this:

Do I need to get out more????

DEROB 5 Sep 15
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5 comments

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This is a good read on that topic.

[goodreads.com]

Yeah you might need some sunlight.

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Someone existed who wrote those parables and the sermon on the mount etc. and it matters not in the least what word you use to name the person.

There’s no way to know with absolute certainty whether or not all those associated miracles actually took place, and the subject bores me. Someone arising from the dead would be an interesting anomaly of nature if it really happened, however, such a thing is insignificant when compared to every moment of conscious awareness that we experience every day.

At a family Easter dinner, we had wine, and I raised my glass, saying “Here’s to the resurrection if it really happened.” I was totally ignored.

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lol we all need to get out more, but it's irrelevant to the question at hand. i am not sure whether jesus ever existed; if he did, he wasn't christian, wasn't named jesus, surely was not born out of doors in the winter, wasn't the son of the god that doesn't exist, and never said the stuff attributed to him by the people who forged the words of the people who never would have met jesus even if those WERE their words. there is a book called the rabbi j, by johannes lehmann. it presumed the existence of the person people now call jesus but pretty much busts everything everyone thinks they know about him, from his presumed divinity to, well, just everything! it's quite interesting, but well out of print and hard to find. meanwhile, it has never been of much concern to me whether or not there was a jesus, because i have never been a christian, but it is interesting nonetheless, and i can't say i have any reason to opine that he actually existed. sometimes it is difficult to explain why he wasn't the son of god without speaking from the point of view that he might have existed (especially to someone who believe there is such a thing as a god!)

g

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Ha! The answer is yes, you prolly do need to get out more (me too, for that matter) but I agree with your position. Not only is the evidence for his historicity way too scant but he also fits the profile of other mythological characters way too perfectly. I have often wondered about the conflict in Ehrman’s head, and how it got there.

skado Level 9 Sep 15, 2018

@MissKathleen
That’s a fact!

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Yes I think you need to get out more. As an atheist I don’t believe Jesus was the son of god. And it doesn’t take much of a leap to believe that he didn’t actually exist. Or at least that he isn’t just an amalgam of stories rolled into one myth. However that argument isn’t going to make a true believer question his/her beliefs. It will just make him/her question the fate of your soul.

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