More of my thoughts:

I was raised Catholic. Upon some introspection in my youth and into adulthood, I rejected that religion and became humanist.

I keep many friends and relatives who are still Catholic, but who denounce priestly pedophilia, denounce barriers to birth control, denounce hatred of homosexuality, denounce hatred of atheists.

I dropped many Catholic friends and relatives who support the hatred of atheists, homosexuality, etc. and that is why they are no longer part of my social circle.

LIKEWISE, I was raised Republican. My parents were huge supporters of Nixon. After my 18th birthday in 1974, I voted Republican in my first election, simply out of family tradition, not thinking at all about what the candidates stood for, and paid little attention to the Watergate scandal and the tales of corruption by Nixon and Agnew.

It wasn’t until I got out in the world, and spoke with people about social issues and developed my own thoughts, that my grandmother said, in front of my parents, “Julie sounds like a good little Democrat!” It wasn’t until then I realized my grandmother was democrat, oh horrors, and also a silent atheist, and that is why we weren’t allowed to discuss religion or politics at family gatherings.

After some introspection and reading about how candidates stand on social issues, I realized that yes, I am more Democrat leaning, and have been voting thoughtfully that way ever since.

I said all that to say this: I can get along with people who are Catholic or Republican, as long as they do not stand for what I consider to be abhorrent about those institutions.

Those who reject the fact finding mission of the special counsel about the obvious (and soon to be proven, I believe) back channel collusion with Russia, the appointment of corrupt cabinet members chosen to fleece the American citizens of natural resources, affordable healthcare, and to enrich the already ultra rich, besides the blatant racism, sexism and white christian supremacy, and the buffoonery going on in the White House, and so many other scandalous activities, too many to list here, then yes, I have a problem with someone who can sweep all this under the rug, like so many immigrant children, and support the direction the Republican party has been derailed to become.

I know Republicans who would be happy to string up all atheists, including me, as obstructions to their agenda, stating anti-patriotism.

As for guns, I used to have no problem with sane people owning guns for legitimate reasons, but I don’t see a reason why the average citizen would have need for an AR-15 and I support the idea of sensible gun laws.

I have a friend who had a large gun collection. (White Christian Male Republican) He was also a heavy drinker. One night after coming home from the bar in the wee hours , he found that his housemate had left a mess in the kitchen after making a sandwich before bed. This angered my friend, so he got his gun and shot his housemate in his sleep. He is now doing 20 years in prison. This was an otherwise sane guy.

So now, I really do question the need for average citizens having guns at all. Makes it too easy for a domestic dispute or jealousy issue to get tragic. I have other gun stories, but this was the most recent in my life. I'm open to discussion about guns, I really don't claim to know much about guns, but I can't support anyone who doesn't feel it's an important topic to discuss.

It’s been my experience that many of my Republican friends are easily swayed to diminish the ugly and have pride in the very few moments of true patriotism, by right wing media spins and propaganda. That may not be you, but if not, I still would struggle as to how you can stand by a president making so many bad decisions, the continued oppression of minorities and women, and the lopsided economics of this administration. Republicanism is becoming Trumpism and I see very few Republicans standing out against what is happening.

@Julie808 "I have a friend who had a large gun collection. (White Christian Male Republican) He was also a heavy drinker. One night after coming home from the bar in the wee hours , he found that his housemate had left a mess in the kitchen after making a sandwich before bed. This angered my friend, so he got his gun and shot his housemate in his sleep. He is now doing 20 years in prison. This was an otherwise sane guy."

WHAT????? They guy drinks too much. (Let's assume the guy was drunk) the gun is just sitting there right? HE took the gun and used it improperly. HOW is taking my guns going to fix that. WHY or WHY did you not see to it your friend didn't take responsibility for his life and NOT DRINK???

"BUT, as soon as a republican says they like Trump as president, that’s a deal breaker. I can not understand that at all. He has disgraced the office of the presidency."

Since you were old enough to vote for Nixon you certainly remember the scandals involved with Clinton right?

"So now, I really do question the need for average citizens having guns at all. Makes it too easy for a domestic dispute or jealousy issue to get tragic."

We have reasonable gun laws NOW! How is that working for you? I would wager to say in most cases these guns were not used by LAW ABIDING CITIZENS??? We have guns because our Bill of Rights gives us that right. My guns are all legal and I would like to know how you taking MY guns is going to help your cause?

and so on. .

But doesn’t it give you pause to see what is happening with the Republican party?

Yes. But I am not going to be able to change the direction of the Republican party any more than you can change that of the Democratic party. (as if you wanted to. Is IT just right?)

"The corruption, the sexism, racism, the anti-climate change agenda? "
Bill Clinton???? Now there is a richous roll model.

The downplaying of the role guns play in mass shootings with pressure to reject sensible gun laws because of huge donations from the NRA to politicians and propaganda from Russia?
Threatening law abiding gun owners will only increase donations to the NRA. Not sure what you mean about propaganda from Russia.

"When looking back at all the people who have wronged me as far as sexism and anti-anthiest actions, they have all been Republicans, "

How do you know this? So what, does that no make them worth talking to or buying their bread? Don't be so quick to paint either party with a broad white brush.

" I can not understand that at all. He has disgraced the office of the presidency."
Did it begin with him or Kennedy?

@kgoodyear I didn't vote for Nixon, he was impeached in 1974. I voted for Gerald Ford after my 18th birthday. My point was that I voted out of family tradition rather than really considering issues and at some point later I began to realize I lean more democrat. Thinking for myself was the point I was making.

Nobody is trying to take away your guns. Like nobody tried to take away the guns of my pro-gun friend, who ended up shooting his housemate in a rage, when a fist fight might have had a happier ending, or better yet, a civil discussion.

You seem to be living in a bubble with an echo chamber of your own beliefs, so I won't waste any more efforts on presenting an alternate point of view.

Carry on and cheer up - perhaps you'll find some here who are in agreement with the labels you've placed on yourself. Good luck!

@SpikeTalon But I have to wonder where will I learn the most? Why are these people allowed to hijack such a general topic as Politics? I learn more about others when I am with others but mostly find solace with friends. There isn't a gun argument I haven't heard and wonder about the effectiveness of rehashing what I already know. I will likely throw myself into the fray of anti-defence supporters but I will do so to learn just what we as a nation are up against. I will save your forum for the rest between the bells and no doubt will need to patch me up and send me back in.

...."you have no moral compass or you are ignorant."....Interesting that I heard this same thing from a theist the other day. What have you learned from your past?

@kgoodyear Their assessment comes from the fact you don't believe in a fictitious being. Mine comes from your own words. If you don't see the difference, you are further proving my point.

@Sticks48 Who do you think you are to say I am ignorant or have no moral compass? What makes you any different then a theist (who judges me). You don't know me from Shinola. I will not judge your intelligence OR your moral compass because I DON'T KNOW YOU. I will assume the best of you as actually intelligent and as most people ARE socially moral you i presume are too.

@daylily How sad you treat so many disrespectfully simply because of how you perceive they may have voted. How is that better then you are/were treated as an atheist?

@kgoodyear No it is supporting someone who believes only his own narcissism that makes some resort to hate speech. I try very hard not to - it's unhealthy for my daily outlook.

I have a good friend who voted for 45. He could never fully explain why? He does hate Hillary though. We remained friends through reason and civility.

This will be the path forward. Yelling that you are right won't change one mind.

You have to try civil discourse. Most of us won't see the world as you do so pick your battles.

I suspect the way forward is a middle ground that we'll need to find.

..."They are bigots and racists and on a mission to squash the middle class, drive fear, hate, and divide."....

You do not know me. Perhaps you would have something to gain by doing so. I am neither any of these things nor would they serve me to advantage. I believe this "belief" is a gross overgeneralization.

No, I don't think so. I'm not here looking for Conservative friends. I'm looking for a like-minded friends both male and female and a partner as my bio states. I'm not wasting my precious time on Conservatives. Thank you anyway.

@kgoodyear You said all I need to know about you in your post. I don't like or respect conservatives who support trump. One can't support women's rights and vote for trump. That is hypocrisy. I have more disdain for hypocrites than l do ignorant conservatives.

I am all too painfully aware.

@daylily "A lot of people can't help but express that anger, sometimes even inappropriately. " As atheist should we not be used to this and rise above it?

@daylily I'll choose to to stay and deal with it. Most of Germany "let them be"

JFK had an agenda. His rhetoric suited his own needs like any other politician. My point is not a political one but more of an observation that simply because I am a Republican I should be cast aside like so much trash, Certainly you have a right to who you want to talk to you but perhaps the conversation would be more interesting if it were more diverse.

@kgoodyear I would venture to say that you won't be judged by your political party as much as your alliance to tRUMP...I know many Republicans, including members of my own family, that are conservative but that did not vote or support him. It has been my experience that as hard as I have tried to carry on respectful conversation, it becomes a strain and never ends well.

Is it fair? Probably not, but at my age, I cut the losses early based on past experiences and tried and true signs in language used, etc. to make my decision to respond to anyone, male or female.

I did notice that in your post, you already used the inclusive and ubiquitous "all" to frame your observation surrounding guns, conservatism, etc. I am a gun owner and have had no such negative hits, and I am a capitalist as well and have spirited conversation with many here. If you truly can keep an open mind and be respectful and justify your support of someone many do actually hate, you have a shot...maybe...it has nothing to do with atheism...that is just a small part of who many of us are.

Who then shall I fear more the religious or the liberal atheist. I am just stunned by the hateful language posted here. Over on "the other forum" there doesn't seem to be anything like this. Haven't we as atheists learned enough from our own experiences than to act like this. This kind of HATE is very polarizing and seems very unproductive accept to just experience the feeling of HATE and blame and where have I heard that before????

@kgoodyear If you were to say something interesting this would be true. Still waiting.

Does this rhetoric make you feel good? Better than I? Stronger than I? More righteous than I? Would you like to see me removed from America because I am a Conservative capitalist Republican and not an angry liberal atheist. How is that better then a religious based government??? HOW? Is something only interesting to you when you happen to agree with it? It is my experience that an atheist doesn't judge sooooo harshly but to learn--you remember, critical thinking?

@Seeker3CO " ....other than keeping power". WAIT, didn't we just have 8 years of democratic presidency???? Did that administration run like a well made bearing? Are the House and Senate not elected by the people. Do we not have SC justices that have been appointed by Democrats?

@Seeker3CO But still it is our government. Vote, leave, run for office. Make it a better place then but don't just point a finger at a party and say "THIS IS WHY!" Blaming one population of people for civic problems is dangerous. Which begs the question "Who shall I fear most Religion or angry liberal atheists?

@Seeker3CO By far I feel more afraid of the liberal atheist because I know they are not lying.

@thinktwice I would venture to say that you won't be judged by your political party as much as your alliance to tRUMP..
Since when do we atheist judge others so quickly or carelessly. Didn't you get enough judgement when you became atheist?

@Seeker3CO and your answer?

@kgoodyear I am not judging you as an individual...I am just trying to give your perspective into the reality of what has happened across our nation, and especially in social media forums. Did you actually read my entire post or did you stop when you read enough to make your point...and prove mine as well? I said it was not fair...and not all atheists are angry or liberal or both...did you assume so? hmmmm...

@thinktwice I will assume "did you assume so?" refers to "did I assume all atheists are liberal?". Certainly not and in fact not until I got on this discussion did I realize the majority are but are spirited enough to say things that seemed far different than what I am used to. Of course, this is a "politics" forum so I would expect this. What took me back was the veracity of the responses. I am sure I read your whole post and if I did not mia culpa. I reread it now. I suspect I was thinking of a response whilst reading your post. Your response(s), once read again, does very nicely make a point and I will add that to my daily thoughts. Realize however I still find little patience with posts that are radically anti conservative.and people who outrightly have no respect for others because of their affiliation and treat them accordingly. This is no better than what I have seen in religion.

Thank you for your review, perspective and patience. Please write more.

@kgoodyear I feel like you...I have no tolerance for closed minded points of view no matter what...I also respect (and avoid) those who have drawn the line in the sand and there is no way to bring them across. I am not out to change them nor waste my time with discussions that go no where and escalate to uncivil behavior and talk...my preference is to associate with those who bring perspective to my life and get me to think without assaulting my basic values...I attempt to do the same within my limited patience. My lines are very clear. Once they are crossed, I have no issue just stopping and moving on.

@thinktwice Part of my life requires that i minimize my exposure to news as i have difficulty sifting the wheat from the chaff. I get my current affairs through short clips that come to me on my phone or interpreted by my son who is and atheist and quite liberal. He reminds me I grew up conservative and that while i hold many conservative values I have acquired more liberal values through deep discussions with him. Actually, my mind is really quite open and I am not without flexibility Last night, as we spoke about my exchange on this forum he reminded me I really, like many Americans, do not fit into either nitch. Still I find the decisiveness and ad hominem on here to not be what I have come to expect from atheists--critical thinkers if you will. Saying outright to F### Trump just caught me off guard and no better than slandering a theist. We should be above that. Please wright more.

@kgoodyear I think we miss out on the uniqueness of each individual when we classify them as one thing or another when in reality we are all sort of a mish mash of a lot of things...and constantly changing as well. I have things I am very conservative about...financial for instance. I have things I am very liberal about...gay rights...I get upset when liberal friends expect me to be 100% democrat on every single thing...NO...I do not know about some of the areas to even have an opinion and if I do know something, my opinion is based on my personal experience and not some f*cking ideological policy. I get in trouble for not agreeing with free this and free that...how the heck do we pay for all this free? ha ha

You hold people to a standard that is higher than I think is possible. using the word "should"...there are a not of "shoulds" that will never materialize so don't expect that or you will be sorely disappointed. It has nothing to do with being an atheist...many assume that just because someone is atheist means they are automatically more open minded, etc. Bullshit...just like being a Christian makes someone more moral...more bullshit...

I think we agree that putting people in just one bucket with they are a combination of all and many buckets is something that will only continue the divisive climate we currently have. It is going to take common sense and a true reaching out of hands ...

May I be so bold as to tell you that trying to defend bad behavior of anyone, especially the supposed leader of the greatest country in the world (debatable), is going to be an uphill road here in most of the groups. If you join only groups that will back you no matter what, I do think you will only further entrench yourself in a singular ideology...no matter what your politics, values, etc.

I would ask you how you could support someone I find so odious that I can't even say his name, but really, I don't want to hear because he has done enough for that to be my line in the sand. You can talk policy and a few other things that in another time and place I would normally agree with...except that all the good he might have done is wasted because of his moral compass...I wouldn't listen to Jesus with his track record...sorry.
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@thinktwice Thank you for your feedback. Now I have learned something constructive. I will still remain a conservative capitalist gun toting atheist but a bit more informed. Thank you.

@kgoodyear how weird that you and I describe ourselves the same and yet I am of the opposite party...I am conservative, gun toting, capitalist and atheist as well....

@thinktwice MOST EXCELLENT maybe that is why I was able to understand you. I learned new things.

@Seeker3CO It is easy to tell when a theist is lying as their mouths are moving. With SOME of the rhetoric on here I would greatly fear for my freedoms and the material things I have earned. .

@Seeker3CO, @thinktwice I'm game. First the Bill of Rights and the amendments (The Constitution), my Civil rights and my human rights. These rights allow me to live freely without harming others and to keep that which is mine unless removed under due process (of law). I will have the rights to think as I wish and do no harm. The Federal Government SHOULD be there to build (interstate) roads, protect our country by sensible rules of conduct. The balance of the power should be with The States.

Now, let's talk reality. Our system is an adversarial one. The Trumps, the Clintons, Democrat vs Republicans, theist vs antitheist (atheist).... This is the best and, for the most part, it is what we have. Decisiveness is inevitable and healthy but like anything cooler heads must prevail.

@Seeker3CO, @thinktwice My first knee jerk reaction as to what will be taken from us would be the right to defend myself and conned into the idea the government is here to help and protect us. (Though, i will admit, a gun is by far the worse first-line-of-defence.) But perhaps it might be one party just running amuck and not recognizing the minority.

@kgoodyear The right to defend yourself is not anything that most people would argue against. You know there are lots of liberal/democrat gun owners that shook their heads when the idea that our 2nd amendment rights would be violated...Where did that come from? It was manufactured to cause panic and divide us. When the whole thing came out that "Dems wanted to take away guns", the whole "Dems wanted to get rid of Christmas thing" came back again. Those are false and fear tactics...you actually sound more libertarian than republican...states making decisions and all...we already fought that war...the Civil War....

I know you know that the whole "defend" yourself against a government is not practical. With modern military weaponry and communications there is no way to do that...I have read all of the ways people say they can and I just find it silly to think of neighbors grouping together to fight the government...I just don't think most people have the brains or the stomach for it...fat old men with limited weapons trying to fight a young, heavily armed military? It is a scene from a bad movie...

No one is going to take our guns away...it is not going to happen ever...there might be stricter gun control, banning of certain types of weapons, etc., but for ordinary citizens...nothing is going to change there.

So, what else do you fear?

@thinktwice It sounds as though i am committing a couple of fallacies: Slippery slope and appeal to fear. I think I will work on putting that into perspective.

That being said I would have to say i fear knee jerk responses to gun "control". It is an old adage but still "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." and the other involves criminals not obeying the gun laws. By definition they will not.

Ok, so there is no libertarian party so I have to choose something of a compromise.

What else do I fear? spending the rest of my life without the company of a nice female companion.

@kgoodyear I fear a callous disregard for the plight of others that through no fault of their own, are caught up in a dysfunctional system. I don't blame people for being poor...I blame the things that cause that. I don't blame people for being angry...I blame the systems that mess things up for everyone.

As a capitalist, I am very aware of how easy it is to just close the curtains and blame people for "not working harder", for being on welfare, for living on the streets, etc. I see many that take the attitude that they deserve it or brought it on their own somehow...while there might be some truth, I have been working with a lot of different groups that have proven this to be wrong, including what has happened to members of my own family.

Unless we take care of the lowest denominator of our pyramid of society, it will collapse and everyone will feel it.

As for your fear...isn't it interesting that when it comes to life, everyone wants the same thing at the core: to be loved and to love...that is universal and transcends politics and religion.

@thinktwice As for your fear...isn't it interesting that when it comes to life, everyone wants the same thing at the core: to be loved and to love...that is universal and transcends politics and religion.

Very elegantly said.