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Just read an article about Christmas songs that should be banned..
Number 1 was 'Baby it's Cold outside' for being a bit rapey
Number 2 'Fairytale in New York' for the use of the words 'slut' and 'faggot'. (The song is about a couple of drunks who love/hate each other...and what that means to them...not sure about this one)
Number 3 Is 'Feed the world' because of its patronising paternalistic view of an entire continent and the idea that was common amongst certain white populations that Africa would always need support from them...yeah
Number 4 Jingle Bells...yep..apparently the guy who wrote it in 1857 used minsterels with blacked up faces to sing it as they made a great contrast in the snow (Not my words!)
What do you think? I am kinda opposed to getting rid of any art, however offensive because we do need to understand earlier mindsets.
What do you think?

Amisja 8 Dec 3
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1

Having read all the comments, any thoughts on 'Santa Baby' anyone !? Out and out seduction there for ulterior motives.

Tilia Level 7 Dec 6, 2018
1

I think people get really weirded out. Some things I find offensive and I'll speak out, but then I have to let a lot of things go. Some people read into things too much, and some things are just very much from their time and all we can do is learn from that in the present.

1

"Baby it's cold outside" Is fur shure about seduction. But, rapey? That's stoooooopid.

Not sure "seduction" is as accurate as "coercion" as the correct noun... But yeah, rapey is too harsh, not to mention preactive.

@Kafir . . i've heard the song with the female yearning for him to stay. is that coercion?

@Jacar Actually, yes. It is. The roles being reversed doesn't change the act. But, to be fair, coercion isn't the correct noun either, as that is talking someone into something through force or threats. So "manipulation" might be more accurate than either seduction or coercion.

@Kafir . . . good move!

If she is enticing, and he responds, he is merely a man.

Yet, if he hesitates, or god forbid, refuses, he is accused of being a dick for not immediately responding as she wants.

In both cases the woman has the control of the potential coupling, and the consequences.

Men are constantly caught in the moment of this complete contradiction. The odds that we choose the correct response are 50% at best. And even if successful, there are no assurances the she will claim her memory of our time together was less to her liking than i remember.

Men are figuratively fucked more often than they get to enjoy it. Sure don't help the ego not really being in control of being able to put my bit somewhere warm and happy as i want.

@Jacar Wow. WTF? That was some entitlement right there?

Not even sure what would help here. I'm baffled. Cause I think I speak for most of the women here - that's not how we see this.

Phew.... walking away SMH...

@OwlInASack I had to read it twice.

I'm gonna need injections for those WTF lines soon. I just know it.

@OwlInASack . . . " I think I speak for most of the women here - that's not how we see this."

Exactly. Women and men think differently about this. I just provided some incite. Don't dismiss it.

@OwlInASack . . . Peterson does not support INCEL thinking.

@OwlInASack . . . full male, but not victim. Men are constantly told they don't behave correctly. So, why do we? The question is valid.

@Jacar Erm the line 'Whats in this drink'...how much rapier can you get?

@Jacar, @RavenCT Absobloodylutely!

@Jacar What was the insight again? Because it obviously flew right past me in the invisible spectrum of light.

Believe me - I studied psychology - yes men and women are raised with different gender roles and all that. But what precisely was your point again?

@RavenCT . . .men are confused. And telling us we are stoopid no matter what we say or do is not productive. That you are not aware of your complicity is sad at best.

@Jacar I didn't say you were stoopid.

I honestly do not know what your point was?

It sounded like you were being entitled.

My meter for that is set to precisely zero.

I'm 54 years old. I've had shit done to me by men my entire life. That's not your fault. But realize - the men today are paying for what the men of yesterday did.

Eventually I believe that equation will balance out again. In the meantime - patience.

@Amisja This harkens back to the day of men getting women drunk just to have sex with them. Probably when the song was written, it was more about there being more alcohol in the drink than she realized.

@bingst That is your reading of the words. As soon as I became cognisant of the words, I presumed the drink had been spiked.

@Amisja Yes, I totally agree. In today's context, I think most everyone would think the same thing. I did. I only recently became aware that the song was written in the 1940s. As far as I know, there weren't drugs available to spike alcoholic drinks with. The alcohol itself was the primary drug in use. I was just pointing out the historical context of the song.

Interesting read on the historical context: [washingtonexaminer.com]

1

Everyone needs to lighten up. Art reflects the the world around it. You need windows into the past to at the very least see how far, or not so far, we have come on social issues. People should never try to interpret what a song writer is saying, and don't put the social mores from the present on the people of the past. It would be no different if you did the reverse.

0

It would be interesting to hear a PC Christmas song. It would probably sound soul-less but who knows?

4

I don't have an issue with Fairytale Of New York. In Irish slang, a faggot is, apparently, a lazy man who spends his time slobbing about and drinking too much, rather than being an offensive term for a homosexual - and secondly, if The Pogues did in fact mean the term to be used in the latter sense, it's being used by the character Kirsty MacColl plays in the song, rather than by Kirsty herself or the band - it shouldn't be considered any different to when an actor playing the part of a racist says the N-word as part of her/his dialogue in a film. The term slut originally meant a slovenly woman who didn't keep herself or her house tidy and clean, and is still used in that sense (my mother once hilariously silenced a packed village hall by apologising for her creased dress, telling her audience that "I didn't have time to iron it because I'm a slut" and was somewhat surprised when I explained the word has taken on a different meaning).

The one that bothers me most is Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer. All of the other reindeer used to laugh at him, call him names and wouldn't let poor Rudolf join in any reindeer games - which sounds to me like they were unwilling to accept Rudolf into their social group on account of his facial disfigurement, and bullied him as a result. Until, that is, one dark and foggy Christmas Eve when the most popular guy in town, Santa, decided that Rudolf could be of use to him by guiding his sleigh, and invited him to join their social group that night.

I hope Rudolf told them all to go and fuck themselves.

Jnei Level 8 Dec 3, 2018

Spot on!

Is it wrong that I started singing 'Rudolph' then 😉 ?

2

In the years that "Baby it's Cold outside" was written, folks didn't jump into bed like they do now, and men were generally way more respectful to women.
If you watch the video of that song, it's clear that it's all playful, flirty banter, and that the woman has control over what's going on. Not only that , but she's clearly not repulsed by her suitor at all.
I've always loved that song.

0

I must have listened to 'Baby it's Cold Outside' a thousand times and always thought it was the charming flirting of a boy pursuing a girl...but I must admit that living in a post conviction Bill Cosby America....the 'What's in this drink' line makes me cringe everytime now....and all I can think is the poor girl is terrified of being assaulted rather than flattered by her suitors attention.... for better or worse the spell is broken and the innocence is lost in all of us....collateral damage in a what sometimes feels like a heartless and predatory world.
I do not however support banning anything....analyzing, discussing, criticizing sure...but banning is antithetical to the core principles of freedom our country was founded on (in the US anyway....Canada was founded on maple syrup and hockey).....and as a side note it has been my observation that those who are hell bent on banning art or ideas usually have an agenda much different than the one they purport.

0

There’s just no more tolerance nowadays.
There’s a segment of society that has deemed themselves as being our moral compass and has begun to eliminate anything that’s deemed unfit for our mental consumption.

Which is ironic as fuck when you realize that they sound just like those that use do the same to them.
So that leaves me with the conclusion that all of clearing of music, television and other forms of entertainment is being done purely out of revenge.

It’s our turn to dominate and control! And for that I ask “ So did you have to sink to their level? “

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