Agnostic.com

7 5

‪It’s so funny that the wall supporters think it’s the answer. This is a FACT the recent ones that came over climbed a wall to get in not the fence. Better laws and an increase of security is the answer. The wall is a joke. A wall didn’t stop more 9/11 attacks better security did‬. Trump is an idiot period.

Charliesey 7 Dec 27
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

7 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

History is rife with walls that failed. Trump doesn't get that because that would entail reading and learning facts. If it's not spoonfed to him on Fox News or Breitbart Trump knows nothing about it.

1

If they build a wall they can play handball.

1

A few facts conservatives prefer you didn't know about the illegal immigration on our souyhrtn border. From. Pew Research Institute. Reasons why there is not a real security emergency and the wall is all hype.

[google.com]

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico
BY ANA GONZALEZ-BARRERA AND JENS MANUEL KROGSTAD

Across the border illegal passages are down for the last three years. There were 12.0 million immigrants from Mexico living in the United States in 2016, and fewer than half of them (45%) were in the country illegally, according to Pew Research Center estimates. Mexico is the country’s largest source of immigrants, making up 26.6% of all U.S. immigrants.

There were 12.0 million immigrants from Mexico living in the United States in 2016, and fewer than half of them (45%) were in the country illegally, according to Pew Research Center estimates. Mexico is the country’s largest source of immigrants, making up 26.6% of all U.S. immigrantd.

There were more apprehensions of non-Mexicans than Mexicans at U.S. borders in fiscal year 2017 for the third time on record (the first was in fiscal 2014). In fiscal 2017, the Border Patrol made 130,454 apprehensions of Mexicans, a sharp drop from a peak of 1.6 million apprehensions in 2000. The decline in apprehensions reflects the decrease in the number of unauthorized Mexicsn immigrsnts voming to the U.S.

There were more apprehensions of non-Mexicans than Mexicans at U.S. borders in fiscal year 2017 for the third time on record (the first was in fiscal 2014). In fiscal 2017, the Border Patrol made 130,454 apprehensions of Mexicans, a sharp drop from a peak of 1.6 million apprehensions in 2000. The decline in apprehensions reflects the decrease in the number of unauthorized immigrants were returned without a formal deportation order.

Oh yeah this last group that we apprehended actually came over a wall to enter the country. Worked really well.

1

trump’s a political opportunist who glommed on to a legitimate problem and national concern with a simplistic soundbite crafted for his base. They bought it, and likely a few others.. But those more aware of the problem know better.

The concern I have for his overreaction is how it’s given the open borders crowd more traction than needed or deserved. It’s yet another example of playing to extremists at either end - we don’t need a wall, or ladders - just the enforcement of our current laws.

Varn Level 8 Dec 27, 2018
1

First we need to quit messing with the leadership of these countries and let them have the representatives that they choose.

Second if The United Nations was as capable as they claim to be the issues that have led to these migrants coming here most likely would be far less than they are right now.

Third this last group from Guatemala actually reeks of being politically motivated just as this wall has been and will until we learn that prevention is far more valuable than reacting.

Also a wall wouldn’t have had any effect on 9/11 considering as to how much of it was an inside job just saying that 3 buildings 3 planes are completely destroyed but a paper passport makes it. ?

0

I'd just like to know how the cost of keeping refugees out or imprisoning them compares to the cost of giving them temporary food and shelter?

The problem is, they don’t remain ‘temporary.’ They scatter into an underground economy with ‘sanctuary cities.’

@Varn Over 95% of them show up for their hearings, they are not necessarily undocumented. Of those that show up at the border only 20% gain legal entry and they do show up for their hearings, the others are turned back.

@silverotter11 That looks like 80% not checking in legally... We can never know beyond vastly varying estimates how many are here illegally. I’ve seen numbers from 11 to 22 million. Our recession/ depression slowed the flow, and Obama was tougher than his predecessor regarding border enforcement. trump’s no doubt got their attention, but when he’s gone, what then?

@Varn NO, those that do not pass the requirements for entry are turned away, they do not get in. We have a law that says anyone can present themselves at the border and request asylum, only 20% pass the test the rest are turned away or returned to their home country. As the courts have stated, trump cannot legislate from the WH. If the people of America want that law changed then congress and the senate need to write up something that can then be passed and signed into law.
If you go over, under or around the border and are caught it is a misdemeanor, like jaywalking which IMHO should not result in having you and your children put in cages.
I really wish our representatives would act more like adults, I call my reps on a regular basis. Everyone should, it doesn't take much time out of our busy days to do this.

@silverotter11 Those ‘not passing inspection’ are those attempting to enter legally.. Those sneaking across the border to live within our country illegally can not be counted.

Many make multiple attempts at entering illegally, which may have begun after a legal attempt. Yes, it’s the ones ‘not caught’ that most citizens are concerned with.

I’m unsure what you’re advocating?

@Varn You state a lot of stuff about bad players without any substantiation. I'd like to see any real data you have, not what you hear on Fox & Friends.

@Varn Following rule of law. We HAVE immigration laws on the books. A better solution to those thousands of people walking to our border would have been more clerks to handle the immigration process we already have in place. Most of those were not criminals seeking to harm anyone but asylum from fear of death in their own country.

@jerry99 Call it forty years of west coast observation.. I’ve witnessed first hand the extremely detrimental effects of illegal immigration in the USA. Provide ‘substantiation?’ I leave fox to the religious.

Illegal Immigration is a major and legitimate concern of most advanced nations. In my nation, the problem’s been kicked down the road ..for decades. One party views illegal immigrants as desperate, near slave labor to be exploited. The other party views them as eventual democrats, ‘loyal’ to the party that let them in.

Having listened to far more public political feedback than most, from every direction, for decades.. is all the ‘data’ I need. You?

@silverotter11 That election-timed ‘migration’ remains a suspected republican ploy, to me. My concern has festered for decades.. And I’m not alone. I’m certain a very high percentage of ‘crossover’ voters voted for trump because he appeared to be the first presidential candidate in recent history actually planning to do something about the inflow.

Problem is, he only followed the desires of ‘his base,’ uneducated racist bigots looking to intimidate and punish as opposed to simply enforcing our existing immigration laws. Granted, enforcement worked, as the detention of asylum seekers and economic opportunists sent a serious message to those planning to enter illegally. But as trump’s shown, he can’t moderate or negotiate.

A longtime neighbor and friend had taken a job after years of teaching HS Spanish that basically consisted helping attorneys, for the right price, tie up our system with bogus applications for ‘asylum,’ with their main goal being economic opportunity. She was appalled, and eventually quit.

The US needs to keep it’s hands off the governments of Central America, something most around here have likely advocated ..forever. But the citizens of those nations need to fight for their lives and liberty like those of their neighbor to the north, not abuse it’s generosity.

@Varn So okay, no data.

@jerry99 There’s no amount of ‘data’ to satisfy someone in denial.. It’s generally a ploy to avoid a deeper issue in which one participant in the discussion is lacking practical or logical experience. Anymore, I watch other fall for it, not me 🙂

@Varn, No, it looks to me that you have no data, just your own long-held, but unsupported opinions. So, I did a quick look and found some data for you: "As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015," author Alex Nowrasteh writes. "The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate." [washingtonpost.com]

@Varn I agree, we are the root cause of much of what has gone wrong in s. america. I sometimes wonder if much of our legislation is written knowing it will be exploited in some way.

@jerry99 So, what? Most illegal immigrants come here for economic opportunity, their crime is having ignored our entry requirements. Don’t expect me to defend trump's accusations, mine are reality based. Sure, there have been murders, rape, drugs, imported gangs along with illegal immigrants, but those are the most immediate and obvious violations (beyond being here illegally), excluding those here for economic opportunities only.

In a large part, people like you are why we’ve got trump.. Those picking a side, then attempting to support it with unrelated ‘data’ ..groping for excuses not to act. What I know is from time spent, decades in fact - talking with the active public, including politicians and activists of both sides.

The ‘data’ you seek is personal, guarded, not given in telephone polls.. It’s from observation, economic realities, depletion of resources, all observed by ‘ordinary people’ feeling powerless to curb it ‘with words.’ Instead, they use votes. As mentioned (if ignored), this remains a festering problem, not only within ‘our nation,’ but within most stable nations on the planet.

I could write a book - and on the pages of this platform alone - nearly have 😕 But I couldn’t force anyone to read, understand, or agree with it. It would & could ‘give data,’ but not snippets of unrelated numbers meant to bolster an unsubstantiated or naive perception, it would start centuries ago… So - you’re stuck with me, and me - you (till now 🙂 )

You’ve obviously no desire to respect my experience or observations, but leaving our immigration laws unenforced and ignored will give those having silently sided with one candidate nothing but incentive to do it again...

5

Most illegal immigration is done by people overstaying their visa. They climbed no fence or wall; they arrived by plane. And the drug problem isnt typically brought across the border either; it comes in shipping containers on the cargo of barges. Theres a different set of laws for rich, mostly white people than for the poor and/or people of color. Trump is an idiot and just wants a monument to his bigotry. And all the religious white folks are just scared enough that it no longer takes a god; even a moron can manipulate them easily.

For the win~!

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:253240
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.