I was doing some reading about men being afraid to flirt and approach women. It reminds me of a time when I was approached in a parking lot by a man. He was around my age at the time, 30 or so. I had just bought curtains for my new apartment and I was loading them inside my car, along with my child and his things. The man approched me with his arms raised, and was asking me to remain calm, saying he was not going to hurt me. I stood there and looked in disbelief wondering what the hell was going on. So, he just asked me for a cup of coffee and I agreed. I still do not understand why that instance took place, but I was wondering what the men think? Are men worried about the legal repercussion of approaching a woman? #metoo, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, that guy from the today show...have women made such examples of men in hollywood that the average man, is now to worried about what will become of him if he approaches a woman?
YES, THEY ARE AFRAID....Now, while some men are out there to harm you many more are not.
Women need to understand the difference between harassment and a compliment. In Latin America, for instance, to say to a lady "GOOD BYE, PRETTY..." is not perceived as harassment but as a compliment.
Simple fix: be the person you would want your child/sibling/parent to date. Problem solved.
It's not hard.
Isn't there just being yourself and body language?
The #MeToo movement just shows how MANY women deal with aggressive sexual approaches daily. It doesn't in anyway make men who DON'T do it a target of having to be afraid of women.
This "I don't know how to approach women now" sounds like, "geez if I can't tell her to suck my dick, how am I gonna let her know I liker her".
I feel both sexes and all orientations should get comfortable with just being open about expressing interest and not heaping it on men to be intiators. Some men who have said that to me, I have said, "approach a woman like you would any male". If you think you want to be friends with a guy, do you walk up and pet his dick, or ask him to look at yours? Or, is it ok to grab and kiss a guy you want to be friends with and just met, or follow him in your car, or walk to close to him in a grocery. NO? Good, you know the rules, don't do it to women either.
The argument is not all women are like this. But that is akin to saying " here put your hand into this basket full of snakes, and don't worry only one of them is venomous." Feminism and or metoo movements will remove the problem or interactions between the sexes, partly as result of feminism, the birthrate in the west is at a rate that will see it disappear of the face of the planet. And what will be left may not have quite the sympathetic view that is currently enjoyed by females in our culture. be careful what you wish for. Does anyone find it an oxymoron, that in a time when are under a constant barrage about female rights and freedoms the top selling book amongst women in the past 50 years is "Fifty Shades of Grey"
We live in an age of professed equality , at least as a goal , & yet women still are under the impression that they are to be approached , & never the other way around . This is not the mentality of a mind that seeks to be equal , & yet , conflicting values persist . I'm at a loss for words , like that Jerry Sinefeld joke , where men are beeping their horns at strange women , that they would like to converse with , but are out of ideas , thus , they beep the horn , as if to ask , "Now what ?" "I'm out of ideas".
I don't beep my horn at strange women , but I have to admit , for the majority of my life , until about 20 years ago , I was out of ideas . As women age , they play fewer games , & are more assertive as to what they want in a partner , at least for the most part . . . They can maintain what they are shown & taught , to remain what they are shown & taught , as feminine , or they can be equal , & make the first move , at least from time to time .
But to answer your question , the new trend has encouraged them to do what they know , is , equal . It's that simple , & for guys like me , it's actually refreshing , to see the majority having to practice what they've been preaching since the 60's. Making the first move , should not be felt as uneffeminate . If it does , then you are dealing with the bonds of a gender roll that dates back to at least the 50's , if not beyond . SAD
There is absolutely a fear of men in a lot of women. I think this is a new thing, but some women seem to think the only men who aren't serial rapists are murderers. I don't see this as only a problem with males. This fear is almost completely irrational but instead of being a mental illness it is supported by society. An entire gender is being judged by some of our worst examples.
The point is a cat lady who can barely leave the house isn't due to men and girls who freak out by approach or even persistence are responsible for their feelings not some guy hitting her up.
This theme of conversation reminds me of an experience I had with my brother. We were walking down the street late at night and we were gaining on a woman on the same side walk. As we approached her, I veered off the sidewalk and crossed to the other side of the street, and we passed her. After a while, my brother asked me why I had crossed the street. I said that we had been gaining on that woman and I didn’t want to scare her.
He said that was what he thought. Then I asked him if he would have crossed the street. He answered that if he had been alone he would have crossed the street a bit earlier than when we did. We both had the same thought - him a little earlier.
I think the moral of this story is that it’s everyone’s job not to scare the shit out of other people. I, even as a female, was aware that our greater speed and greater numbers could be interpreted as threatening, and so I crossed the street. Males often act as if they are the only ones doing this because like my brother, you “cross the street” earlier than I “crossed the street.” This makes sense as men are on average more threatening than women, so yes, you might give bigger berth than I do.
I personally think that everyone has the right to ask someone else out (once - if they say no, you need to respect boundaries) provided there is no potential conflict of interest.
That being said, if we are going to be promoting a gender role on whose responsibility it is to ask someone out, I try to promote women doing the asking out. Men always have to navigate the inherent physical size difference (which isn’t going away) and other patriarchy power dynamics (which aren’t going away fast enough) to get in the good graces of women (basing off heterosexual relationships in the advice obviously). It is much better to have women ask men out as a societal norm in my opinion. For women I tell them it works in your favor. The chances of you picking out an asshole out of group of men is much less than an asshole picking you out and targeting you.
Women are not here to appease men. If men feel threatened by #metoo, then perhaps there's a reason they feel that way. Approaching a woman in a parking lot while her hands are full and her children are around her is not at all a smart thing to do. What else is a woman supposed to think if a man she doesn't know approaches her in that situation? Most women would assume the guy has possible harm on his mind. Even if the woman was child-free, had no packages and was just walking to her car, being approached by a strange guy is not ok. There are times and places where guys can meet women, such as at a singles event, a meetup group, online dating, a bar or club. Guys don't need to approach women they don't know in parking lots, and the fact that this guy did would immediately set my radar off. If he can't find a date through other dating venues and feels the only way he can meet women is by approaching them in parking lots, that strongly suggests to me that he isn't a guy you want to spend a lot of time with. I'm glad his intentions were, essentially, innocent and he just wanted to ask you out for coffee. But it worries me that he felt the only way he'd have a chance at getting a date was through the shock factor of approaching a woman he doesn't know in a parking lot. To quote Canadian author Margaret Atwood, "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." For the men: don't be that guy.
Not sure if I ever truly 'flirt' . Express interest but not flirt? Otherwise I try to always listen for the word 'no' . Sometimes it's body language which can be more difficult. If I'm not sure I ask. I also need to see where I am at. Sometimes it's better to not even try. Kind where I am at right now.
I can see that approaching women in isolated places can be very confronting and do not recommend it. I have no concerns approaching women in public places, not that I do so to ask them out. In 3 organisations I have been the person to whom sexual misconduct could be reported, in each case it was female staff who made the request. My title at one company was "Sexual Harassment Officer" with the comment that if anyone wanted to be harassed they should come to me, but that no-one else in the organization was permitted to hassle the girls. It was partly tongue in cheek, but also recognition that things were not as good as they should be. I did cause a couple of managers to lose their jobs for misconduct. To be honest, things are bad, guys have brought this on themselves, but looking back over the past 50 years, many many women and girls actively encouraged behaviour that is not acceptable any more. As a junior I was groped many times by female staff, both my age and much older.The world has changed. I believe for the better, I hated working with sleazebags.
Well, if you work at the same place, treat it like a minefield. If you are in any position of power over them, they should be off limits, period.
If they are a random person, use some common sense and treat any decline as permanent. If they are interested they will make it happen.
If you are friends or something outside of work, then they should be able to handle some flirtation.
Guys should also remember that simply accusing someone of impropriety is a huge thing, people rarely do it without good cause.
The grey areas are when there is some mutual interest, but the circumstances of life simply get in the way. Just stay in touch and let life move on.
I am usually reserved. I hate rejection, so avoid its possibilities as a basic behavior. However, if a woman is friendly, I will respond with like-kind behavior. I will even admit that I like it when a woman pays attention to me - I'm usually responsive (if I'm available). If I'm not available, I'll accept friendship if I find her attractive.
It definitely make me think twice, especially at work. I think these a-holes like Weinstein deserve it, but it certainly sends a chill down my spine. I have worked with some real batshit crazy women in my past. It goes both ways.
Both sex are falt for this. I don't blame him for doing what he did. It's because a lot of women tend to be nervous with a guy walking up to them in places that don't tend to have a lot of people. Meanwhile there have been a lot of men who have given women a reason to have that fear. Even in public place a lot of men tend to be nervous/scared to speak to a woman that they don't know for fear of scaring them.
It's good that men now have to stop and consider the consequences of their actions. It's about time.
I have no problem "approaching" women. My only desire is getting to know who she is as a person, and sharing who I am. Occasionally, that initial conversation turns into more, and every once in a while, those conversations lead to more. I can never have too many real and honest friends. I could not be less interested in "hookups". And, I have the benefit of not being accused of anything inappropriate. When you respect people, you don't treat them as objects.
My friends tell me I'm not typical of males.
I do have insecurities partially because of the laws and being accused of something.