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Can Anti-Matter Generate Anti-Gravity?

The question has been asked, why doesn't anti-matter generate anti-gravity on the same grounds and for the same reasons that matter generates gravity? My general answer, albeit speaking as a lay or non-expert, is that there's no causal association between positive or negative electric charge and positive or negative (anti) gravity. This means that there can be no actual establishment of a Theory of Everything (TOE).

What is anti-matter? It's just a matter particle that has an equal but opposite electric charge associated with it. The common example is the negative electron and the positive positron. A positron is the anti-matter electron. Some particles are their own anti-particles. A neutrino and an anti-neutrino are the same thing. Ditto a photon and an anti-photon are one and the same thing. Presumably the theoretical (as yet undiscovered) graviton and anti-graviton would be the same thing. If an anti-graviton would be the same thing as a graviton, and a graviton is the pull force that manifests itself as gravity, then there is no anti-gravity push force.

Electric charge would seem to be something fundamental - a fundamental property of whatever object has electric charge. I mean you couldn't remove electric charge from an electron (or a positron) and still have an electron (or a positron).

What actually is electric charge? We know the push / pull properties of electric charge but not much else. It would be interesting to know the ultimate causality that generates electric charge. Why does electric charge of necessity exist at all as something fundamental? And why is electric charge in just-so units and why is it associated with just certain types of particles (i.e. - electrons) and not with other types of particles (i.e. - neutrinos)?

As noted above, an electron and a positron differ only with respect to electric charge and electric charge wouldn't seem to have any effect on gravity or gravity on electric charge. Presumably an electron (or a positron) is still an electron (or a positron) regardless of what strength gravitational field it is in. An electron is an electron is an electron when it is weightless (in zero-G); in micro-gravity (weak-G); in standard Earth-G; in really strong-G or even inside a Black Hole.

When an electron and a positron meet and greet and go Ka-Boom, you don't get equal amounts of energy and of anti-energy; just energy.

If you accelerate an electron to ever faster and faster velocities, its mass, hence its gravity must increase according to Einstein's Relativity theories. But, the electron's electric charge wouldn't change at ever increasing velocities, so there's no apparent relationship between an electron's gravity and an electron's electric charge.

Now you might argue that the apparent acceleration of the expansion rate of the Universe must be put down to an anti-gravity push force (which goes under a host of pseudonyms like dark energy or the cosmological constant). However, there's no apparent association between dark energy and anti-matter. In fact I would argue that an acceleration of the expansion rate of the Universe is downright and flatly impossible since it involves creatio ex nihilo otherwise known as the creation of an absolute something from an absolute nothing which is a violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics. In other words, my cosmology texts tell me that the energy density of the Universe remains constant even though the Universe is expanding, whereas one would expect the energy density to decrease as in an expanding Universe energy becomes more dilute. So an accelerating expansion rate of the Universe is just plain nuts and IMHO an example of 'special effects' generated by computer software. I mean at the point of the Big Bang event, there was a finite and supposedly fixed amount of matter / energy within. So where is this extra energy coming from? Perhaps it's just an artificially generated simulation.

Anti-matter is mysterious quite apart from the cosmological puzzlement that there should be equal amounts of matter and of anti-matter in the Universe and that doesn't seem to be the case. The other mystery IMHO is when an electron meets and greets a positron, why not get a resulting particle with no overall electric charge and twice the mass or either an electron or a positron?

Another mystery is why does an electron and a positron go Ka-Boom when they meet and greet but not an electron and a proton whose electric charge is also equal and opposite to that of an electron?

Overall conclusion: gravity versus electric charge (or electromagnetism). The idea that there is no actual causal association between gravity and electric charge is evidence for the Simulation Hypothesis. There is and can be no Theory of Everything (TOE) which is the theoretical unification between the realm of the micro (where electric charge resides) and the realm of the macro (where gravity resides) because there are two separate and apart pieces of software running the cosmos. One is for the micro; one is for the macro.

Addendum One

Of course to a physicist a Theory of Everything (TOE) isn't of course actually having to know everything. I mean a TOE doesn't have to incorporate things like legal and political systems, the rules and regulations involving sporting contests or concepts involving aesthetics. "Everything" to them as you correctly note, is just a unification of the micro and the macro; the unification of the four (known) fundamental forces.

I wouldn't want to say such a unification is "impossible", other than to note that thousands of the finest minds going, have for multi-decades now, tried to find a TOE - and to date failed to do so. Now if there is just one Mother Nature, then it just can't be that difficult to find an overriding commonality. Something is screwy somewhere!

Now there are two main reasons why I can't in the here and now at least accept a connection between anti-matter and anti-gravity. Firstly, some particles have no electric charge and thus are their own anti-particles. A neutrino comes to mind. But a neutrino, hence an anti-neutrino, has mass (and not anti-mass - whatever that would actually mean), hence gravity (and not anti-gravity). So gravity hence anti-gravity can't be dependent on electric charge. Secondly, anti-matter has been created in the laboratory and is used in medicine - Positron Emission Tomography (PET) comes to mind here. I don't recall any reports of said anti-matter shooting up skywards! Anti-matter would seem to obey the same physical laws, principles and relationships that rule the matter roost.

Something else is bothering me here. A particle and an anti-particle should attract each other since they have opposite electric charges. But say the particle has standard gravity (pull) and the anti-matter particle has anti-gravity (push). Or, you can imagine an overall electrically neutral object made of matter (that is composed of electrically neutral atoms and molecules) and an electrically neutral object made of anti-matter (that is composed of electrically neutral anti-atoms and anti-molecules). If both attract each other under the standard force of gravity, then there is no anti-gravity. But if the electrically neutral matter object had the standard pull gravity, and if the electrically neutral anti-matter object had anti-gravity - push gravity - then what? I mean then what given the two push and pull gravitational forces have the exact same magnitude? Do you have an equivalent to the immovable object versus the irresistible force? It all feels like a kind of contradiction that you just don't find in nature. I mean you just have pull-pull or push-push at least when it comes to electromagnetism, and just pull-pull when it comes to gravity. There are no equal and opposites at a distance pull-push (or push-pull) forces in opposition to each other.

Finally, if a neutral particle isn't its own anti-particle then the sum total of matter particles exceeds anti-matter particles. Neutrinos, photons, gravitons, etc. would be lumped in with the matter particles like electrons and up-quarks, but not with anti-matter particles. That would be a rather asymmetric situation that I'm sure particle physicists wouldn't accept.

So since a neutrino exists, and since a neutrino is its own anti-particle, if anti-particles generate anti-gravity, then a neutrino would have to exhibit both gravity and anti-gravity which would seem to be a contradiction.

Summary: Gravity doesn't seem to be linked to electric charge. Gravity, and anti-gravity if it exists, seemingly must have some other causal mechanism behind it.

Addendum Two:

A common objection would be, but isn't electric charge the property that makes anti-matter, well anti-matter? I mean what is the difference between an electron and a positron if not electric charge? And if electric charge is what makes anti-matter, anti-matter, and anti-matter has anti-gravity, then isn't electric charge somehow causally linked to gravity (which of course is what a TOE demands)?

If I had to place my bets, I'd still bet that while anti-gravity may in fact exist, electric charge will not be the causal factor. There's probably little point in endlessly speculating. Let the experiments begin, or continue - whatever.

Although this has relatively little to do with the question, I'm puzzled by what would happen if you had a Black Hole made out of matter, and a Black Hole made from anti-matter, and they collided, would you get 1) the Mother of all Ka-Booms, or 2) just a larger Black Hole?

By the way, one of the ideas behind the Tunguska, Siberia aerial explosion in 1908 was that it actually was a small chunk of anti-matter that impacted Planet Earth.

johnprytz 7 Feb 6
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Hello,
I agree that there is no causal correlation between electrical charge and gravity, and I do not know why some people assume that. There is no causal correlation between electrical charge and gravity in matter, so why would there be in anti-matter? The fact that some particles are their own anti-particle would seem to shoot that assumption down. I do not agree that a TOE demands that casually demands that electrical charge be connected to gravity. Though you may find a TOE that demands that, there are and have been many TOEs, none of which has proven to be successful theories, BTW.

I also don't agree that dark energy means creation ex-nihilo. There is no "extra" energy involved, but rather the idea is that there is inherent energy in the quantum field(s) that is, is essence, released as the effect of gravity via constant space-time expansion is continually diminished. This is not hard to explain or imagine. Any object accelerates as the gravity restraining it diminishes as any object escaping the gravity of Earth would do if the same continual energy was applied. Also, it is not true that there "should" be an equal amount of matter and anti-matter in the Universe. That is an assumption made by symmetry worshipers (Einstein was one). The Universe is full of random fluctuations, and just a slight fluctuation would result in a universe like ours. The amount of matter in our Universe is relatively speaking very, very small. Also, it is not true that an electron and a positron always go Ka-Boom when they meet. As with any two charged objects, electrons and positrons may also interact with each other at high energies without annihilating, in general by elastic scattering. At high energies, other particles, such as B mesons or the W and Z bosons, can be created.

It is also interesting to note that an anti-matter universe would be going backwards in time relative to us, but would be experienced by the life in it as going forward in time. We would appear to be going backwards in time to them. The behavior of a matter particle going backwards in time, and that of a antiparticle are exactly the same...which I find fascinating.

@johnprytz All I can say is that your understanding of dark energy is significantly different from mine and that I don't think that the quantum field astrophysicist Sean Carroll would agree with you. Also, I have never read or heard of any astrophysicist saying that we get energy from nothing. Quite the contrary, they often talk about the total balance of energy/data in the universe.

Matter only slightly dominated antimatter in the beginning of the universe. That can be said to be a mystery though it is not really a surprising mystery as random fluctuations in quantum physics are expected if not exactly explainable. If there were no random fluctuations and matter and antimatter were evenly balanced in the beginning of the universe then it would have all destroyed each other and we would not be here to discuss this. Matter overwhelmingly dominates antimatter now because most antimatter has been destroyed by contact with matter. That's no mystery.

Yes, but I think what Richard Feynman actually said was that a positron is indistinguishable from an electron traveling backwards in time. But, then again I didn't exactly attend all of his lectures. 🙂

@johnprytz
You are correct, dark energy came as a surprise to the cosmological community and it is still not well understood. It may not be for some time.

You are also correct that in your understanding of dark energy the First Law of Thermodynamics is violated. In mine, it is not as there is no heat energy creation ex nihilo.

You are also correct that an electron just doesn't morph into a positron or vice versa. But that is neither what Feynman nor I maintain. ( Not that I am putting myself in the same class as him. 🙂 )
"Indistinguishable from" and "morph into" are not the same thing.

@johnprytz
True, but there remains the fact that truly neutral particles don't have to morph into their antiparticle since they already are their own antiparticle. Known examples of such elementary particles include photons, Z bosons, and Higgs bosons, along with the hypothetical neutralinos, sterile neutrinos, and gravitons.

"Thus, one couldn't explain the dominance of matter over antimatter by suggesting that antimatter morphs into matter at a greater rate than matter morphing into antimatter."

True, but one does not need to explain the dominance of matter over antimatter that by such morphing. When matter and antimatter collide there is annihilation, not to be confused with matter/antiparticle morphing, though a wide variety of other heavy particles are created at high energies and photons at low energy annihilation.

Note: The word annihilation takes use informally for the interaction of two particles that are NOT mutual antiparticles - not charge conjugate. Some quantum numbers may then not sum to zero in the initial state, but conserve with the same totals in the final state.
[en.wikipedia.org]

@johnprytz Sure there is a difference between a neutrino and an antineutrino. For each neutrino, there exists a corresponding antineutrino, which also has half-integer spin and no electric charge. They are distinguished from the neutrinos by having opposite signs of lepton number and chirality. To conserve total lepton number, in nuclear beta decay, electron neutrinos appear together with only positrons (anti-electrons) or electron-antineutrinos, and electron antineutrinos with electrons or electron neutrinos. Now as to why the particle creations/decay occurs as it does, this involves rather complex mathematical equations that are beyond my ability to comprehend, let alone explain. Furthermore, many of these equations involve probabilities rather than certainties, so your "why" questions would only continue.
As to why annihilation occurs, this because when such collisions occur they result in unstable rearrangements or configurations that necessitate an annihilation process. I don't even like the word "annihilation" because it involves the creation of other particles and is not actually the total annihilation that many people imagine, but more of a destruction/recreation process. Again, this involves complex mathematical equations, some of which involves probabilities rather than certainties. So, I suppose the "why" questions can continue there.
I once had a science professor tell me that science does not answer "why" questions, but rather answers "what" and "how" questions. If you want your ultimate "why" questions answered, turn to religion, not science. That was good advice, I think.
That said, I certainly agree that the business of antimatter is challenging...and fascinating!
I've enjoyed our conversation. You have made me think.

@johnprytz Just a slight clarification. I get your point. My fault for not being more clear. "Why does the Sun rise and set" would be more accurately phrased from a scientific point of view as what is really happening when the Sun appears to rise and set over the horizon (which would be explained in terms of the earth's rotation) and how is this happening (which would be explained in mathematical terms of planetary rotation and orbit around a star). I and my former college professor were really talking about religious/philosophical "whys" such as why is the universe even here. However, that was back in the day of the Non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) when religion and science were viewed as representing separate venues of inquiry. Nowadays science does indeed speculate on some of these philosophical questions such as "Why is there something rather than nothing" which it never used to do.

Live long and prosper!

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It was my understanding that If matter and antimatter collide, they would destroy each. Matter is any object that has mass and takes up space. Does antimatter have mass? Does it take up space? It probably has gravity just like matter. I would think of antimatter more the same as matter, but existing at an inverted frequency. So you’d see attenuation as the cause of mutual destruction. And Einstein’s theory is just that. Theory. There are plenty of Einsteins out there trying to test his theory, but we’re just not there yet.

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