Agnostic.com

10 5

Consciousness... Can it be measured objectively?

Cutiebeauty 9 Feb 7
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

10 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

We all want to know.

1

Consciousness is one of those things that it’s hard to place my finger on. I feel that what we know about it at this point is far from the full picture.

1

Pretty good question I will get the answer at lunch.

You must be having a very long lunch.... ?

@Cutiebeauty Yup Have a nice day

2

Measuring it is something we already kinda do when we measure brain activity or even when we talk with someone or look at their behavior. I think it is obvious today that there is a link between brain activity and consciousness and what a person says and how they behave is also a direct effect of consciousness that we can study.
How consciousness comes to be is a question where there is so little actual knowledge and so much empty talking that I wouldn't take anything too serious. This might change when we create a real AI with something that could be considered consciousness or when we get a full understanding about how the brain works and how it creates it.
(Of course there might be something more than the brain involved like a soul but that kind of thing first would have to be established so without any evidence of this I refer to Occam's razor)

Dietl Level 7 Feb 7, 2019

I agree. It has been measured as electro-chemical signatures. I know this is too clinical for many. But the exact workings and make up of the brain is still being discovered. Its like defining love as nothing more than chemical reactions, thouroughly unsatisfying and boring, I know.

1
I know, but I am the only one. When I am on my death bed I will tell one other person, after they swear never to tell anyone else(until there dying day). I am but one of a continuum extending back to 9054 BC. 

Here's hoping you are on that bed soon so you can reveal your secret...

@Cutiebeauty and you know you will be the one don't you? And don't be sad when I go. I am going to a better ... I mean a hole in the ground where I will rot and get eaten by worms, and where maggots and flies will lay their eggs. But you can't destroy energy and since we have electrical energy in our brain, if you feel some static electricity in your hair that will be me.

2

Ohhhh my god
Giant fucking can of worms
Working on a PhD in philosophy
You just tapped into a vein/bane of philosophical arguments and thought experiments.

The answer is simply yes and no.
I’ll write something up when I get a moment but you could read endlessly on the topic.

Or just watch Matrix

Oh damn.... Sorry lol

@Cutiebeauty
Haha
I’m exaggerating a bit
It’s a great topic and a lot of fun

Here’s my first question for you.
There are typically 3 responses to this.
Where do you feel the counsciousness exists?

Also could you please define what consciousness means to you?

@darthfaja consciousness resides where memory is, I guess... And my definition of consciousness is... Awareness of our environment, internal and eternal...

@Cutiebeauty
Usually people say their brain, heart, or entire body. So that’s a normal reply.
Self awareness is a good place to start.

Would you refer to your counsciousness sort of like your soul? (Let’s avoid the religious implications to my statement for times sake because that’s a different can of worms)

Also if it’s your brain is that where you exist?
If I removed your brain and put it in someone else’s body would you consider they would be you?
(Assume that’s possible)

@Cutiebeauty and I will answer your question. We just need to go for a conversation walk first.

@darthfaja yes... The brain is who we are... All of us is the the brain. ... Transfer my brain , you transfer me... No need to discuss a soul... The soul to me is the mind...

@Cutiebeauty good
Ok then are we in agreement that the brain is or contains your counsciousness?

Which is it to you?
Is your brain your counsciousness or does it just contain your counsciousness?

What would happen if you have a head injury or an infection that changed who you are?
Are you a new person or are you trapped inside?

What about drugs that alter counsciousness? Is that real or is it invented.

If it’s invented isn’t that our reality for that space of time?

How do we know that the color red we see is the same color someone else sees? What if there red was our green? This has to do with perception. How do each of us perceive and relate to our surroundings.

Start there I’ll respond more when I read your answers. You don’t have to answer all of that it’s more just to think about.

I’ll wrap it up soon

@Cutiebeauty and just so you know
I’m in agreement with you on everything thus far except I have a slightly different view of counsciousness.

@darthfaja I think the brain is the consciousness and also contains the consciousness... It's a solid mass... And if the brain is altered in any way... Through sickness or drugs or injury, the person... The consciousness must change... Perception is a whole different topic haha

@Cutiebeauty
Great!!
Ok....
Cogito, ergo sum. (I think therefor I am.)
we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt....
dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum (I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am).

So basically wether or not we exist as we perceive we exist or as something else... even if we are just in someone elses’ Imagination it doesn’t matter

We exist somewhere
Since we are thinking we exist
We couldn’t doubt our existence otherwise
Since we doubt, we think
If we think we exist..... somewhere

Now if you want a specific measurement there are many scientists, neurologists, philosophers working to actually measure counsciousness. There are a bunch of different hypothesis on how to do this. One goal is to help make end of life decisions for a vegetative state and pulling the plug do to speak.

It’s still a large Philosophical debate on what the consciousness is.

I feel counsciousness is a state of awareness. This awareness is the awareness that our time is limited, that we will someday no longer exist.
I believe that this awareness is why we have always looked above for answers in ‘gods’
Because we are afraid

1

The brain can't even differentiate reality from dreams more often than not. So, how can we know consciousness? We could be some 7th grader's science project that got third place and he placed into the lab's closet til the semester ends. We have until that door opens and a red headed, blue eyed, long haired alien looking kid returns.

Ummmm... So in other words, no comment or you don't know? OK..

1

May I have a few minutes to respond?

Of course.. I want thoughtful responses...

1

It is a very pertinent and obvious question, yet there are few people who want to think about such a question. I respect your courage.

Thank you... I'm here to learn from those smarter than me..

@Cutiebeauty because those are the only ones you can learn from? LOL

@Cutiebeauty
No one is smarter
Everyone has their niche

@mooredolezal no.. But it's one way...

@darthfaja yes but some people have very small niches.

@mooredolezal no need for you to admit that... You're trying... That's the important thing...

@Cutiebeauty hey I'm highly specialized, but very good at what I do. What can I say?

@mooredolezal that's good... Confidence is very helpful... You'll learn much here with confidence...

1

I read that it's the universe's way of recognising itself. I think religion was the only way to understand it for ages, then psychology and philosophy had a bash at it followed by physics. The latest efforts come from the old pagan animist thinking but they're calling it panpsychism now.

First time hearing the term panpsychism ..
Thought id get some perspectives on it...

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:283703
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.