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Open discussion. Zoroastrianism and the influence on Abrahamic religions.

By SeamusFarrell4
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Richard carrier

enough said

Alphaeevee Level 4 Mar 14, 2019
1

One nice evidence is that there is no mention of the devil itself in the books before contact with babilonian people.
The 2 divinities idea comes from there, but as YHWH was already a supreme being, the evil divinity became the revel angel.
And that makes no sense because for a lot less YHWH obliterated cities, while the evil god is free to act XD

Pedrohbds Level 7 Mar 14, 2019
0

I'd a workmate that was Zoroastrian. She was Indian (Zoroastrianism originated in Persia). Apparently, there are many who'd migrated going back long ago. (Prob to escape the Islamists.) Zoroastrians must be born into it, they're very exclusionary and insular, and they mos def weren't supposed to marry outside of the tribe. I think she got mated with a matchmaker or the like.

We got pretty close in our time working together – literally one of the nicest people I've ever know – and she'd told me at the time that she'd done no dating and was a 24-26 y.o. virgin. She came to the U.S. to go to USC of all places, and then left a few years after grad school to end up in Dubai, not the friendliest place for non-Muslims.

As with most traditions, you join-in bc your family demands it. She has a daughter of her own now that's being subject to all of the traditional rituals. I've got to believe they're a shrinking population, tho.

Deiter Level 7 Mar 13, 2019
1

The "do unto others as you would have done to you" thingy is from Zoroastrianism.

Knitfreak Level 7 Mar 13, 2019
1

The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25

"God" of Israel is Egyptian.

Zoroastrianism is an ancient Persian religion that may have originated as early as 4,000 years ago.

The discovery of the clay Elam tablets in Iran provided the third reference point to accurately date the life of Abram, confirming that he lived in the 23rd/22nd century BC, over 1000 years before Moses.[

Abraham older than Zorosomesomeism.

Antifred Level 7 Mar 13, 2019
1

Abraham was almost certainly a Zoroastrianist his monotheism and dualism come have come from almost no where else.
Abraham introduced the concept of angels again an element of Zoroastrianism (to be clear angels in the patriarchal stories of the bible do not have wings, that came from Egypt later Zoroastrianism's angels are shining beings who dress in black to dull their "glory" ) He popularised the God and Devil conflict from the twin deities of Ahura Mazda and Ahriman.
Many Zoroastrianist converted to Christianity believing him to be the second coming of Zarathustra who had foretold his return as the child of a virgin mother who would conceive after baptism in a sacred pool.
I think there is no question whatsoever that The house of Israel emerged from Zoroastrianism.

LenHazell53 Level 8 Mar 13, 2019

Zoroastrianism is an ancient Persian religion that may have originated as early as 4,000 years ago.

The discovery of the clay Elam tablets in Iran provided the third reference point to accurately date the life of Abram, confirming that he lived in the 23rd/22nd century BC, over 1000 years before Moses.[

Abraham older than Zoroism

@Antifred the only web sites that back that sort of dating up are creationist and completely neglect the fact that the measurement of the ancient Babylonian year, the Israelite year and the Julian calendar were all shorter than the modern Gregorian year, hence Abraham being claimed to be 175 years old at his death.
All three of the artifacts including the Elam tablets make no mention of Abraham, but date him by relating him to lists of kings, none of which can be directly linked to Abraham but are based on counting back from Moses who it is claimed lived 1440 years after Abraham.
Problem being of course Moses never existed, there is no independent record of him or the exodus in the huge library of Egyptian history uncovered in the last two centuries with the aid of Champolians research and the Rosetta stone and his biblical legend is a retelling of the Birth of Horus who did not exist either.
Zarathustra was not the first prophet of Zoroastrianism, he is just the greatest, claiming the religion can be dated from him is like dating Judaism from the Birth of Rabbi Judah Loew ben Bezalel .

I've come across the "Moses never existed" a lot, and I think this likely, but where can I read more about it? Was it based on the archaeological research of Finklestein?

0

I actually really like Zoroastrianism as far as religions go.

indirect76 Level 7 Mar 13, 2019
7

"The Obscure Religion That Shaped the West"

"It is generally believed by scholars that the ancient Iranian prophet Zarathustra (known in Persian as Zartosht and Greek as Zoroaster) lived sometime between 1500 and 1000 BC. Prior to Zarathustra, the ancient Persians worshipped the deities of the old Irano-Aryan religion, a counterpart to the Indo-Aryan religion that would come to be known as Hinduism. Zarathustra, however, condemned this practice, and preached that God alone – Ahura Mazda, the Lord of Wisdom – should be worshipped. In doing so, he not only contributed to the great divide between the Iranian and Indian Aryans, but arguably introduced to mankind its first monotheistic faith.

The idea of a single god was not the only essentially Zoroastrian tenet to find its way into other major faiths, most notably the ‘big three’: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The concepts of Heaven and Hell, Judgment Day and the final revelation of the world, and angels and demons all originated in the teachings of Zarathustra, as well as the later canon of Zoroastrian literature they inspired.

Even the idea of Satan is a fundamentally Zoroastrian one; in fact, the entire faith of Zoroastrianism is predicated on the struggle between God and the forces of goodness and light (represented by the Holy Spirit, Spenta Manyu) and Ahriman, who presides over the forces of darkness and evil. While man has to choose to which side he belongs, the religion teaches that ultimately, God will prevail, and even those condemned to hellfire will enjoy the blessings of Paradise (an Old Persian word)."

More: [bbc.com]

VictoriaNotes Level 8 Mar 13, 2019

Thank you for the interesting history.
At one time there were lots of religions allowed in Iran. One that Parvin spoke of often were the whirling Dervishes [answers.com]. She had Jewish and Christian friends and many from the Bahai faith [bahai.org] Unfortunately, after the revolution many non-Moslem (Shia) practices were banned.) She thought all religious beliefs were silly and wondered why people believed in them. After she saw what it did to her country she became an active atheist.

A good short summary.

@Fernapple It's a fascinating topic worth discussing.

@JackPedigo "After she saw what it did to her country she became an active atheist."

That's certainly understandable.

@VictoriaNotes Yes it is years ago that I last studied it. The history of human thought is always a facinating study, even that of the Middle East alone could fill a lifetime, it is such a shame that the present rulers of the region are trying so hard to wipe it out even the hard evidence. Because even if it survives in western museums, libraries etc. it is not like having the original on the ground. Though it does provide one good reason for spreading all cultural artifacts around as widely as possible, despite the easily justified demands for repatriation.

"Zarathustra, however, condemned this practice, and preached that God alone – Ahura Mazda, the Lord."

Mazda is god?

Wait til Ford and Chevy find out about this!

@BryanLV Get thee behind me, Ford and Chevy. There is but one true God.

Edited

@Fernapple Just for clarification, the "it" to which you refer is Islam?

Unfortuantely, its not only true with Islam, but Christianity is also working overtime to destroy its original tenets. Refer to a post earlier this week by Ronin38 about the origin of the KIngs James bible. Each authorirized revision/publicaion gets further and furtehr from the original tenets. Subtle changes that taken in totality significantly alters the unerstanding of the original tenets. Just look at Evangelicalis,m. Couldn't be further from its original tenets if it tried.

@VictoriaNotes ORIGIN OF THE NAME MAZDA

Its name originates from Ahura Mazda, the ancient Persian god of light, also the god of wisdom, intelligence and harmony. He is also a symbol for the origins of Eastern and Western cultures. The name also derives from the name of the company's founder, Matsuda, which is pronounced Mazda in Japanese. Jujiro Matsuda, the Westernized pronunciation of the Mazda Corporation founder’s name. Matsuda was known to be a fervently spiritual man and honored the company with the name it has kept for almost 100 years.

[thenewswheel.com]

@t1nick No actually the "it" I was refefering to was Zoroasterism the subject of the post. But I like your comment.

@Tiramisu Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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