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What do you say to the law of conservation of energy argument? That the universe cannot have created itself because of said law and therefor must have been created by something that can operate outside of said law, which is God?

august03 2 Mar 18
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13 comments

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0

I don't really think I care too much. I need something to eat that is more important right now.

1

That all of said energy has always existed in one form or another and if you're eyeing the big bang, that event was the transformation of an unknown energy into what we observe today.

0

Primitive man looked at the sky and asked why and made up many tales to explain the nature of the world (as they knew it). We have progressed far from that time but because science doesn't know or has ever claimed absolute knowledge -- only the religious claim that -- I will put what I know in science. I'm not a physicist so can not argue with you regarding your interpretation of the conservation of energy, but I'm sure you have run into others that can.

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The Universe has always been here.

gater Level 7 Mar 18, 2019

@TheAstroChuck I pity you - you call yourself the astro chuck - like you're some authority on the topic - but you are absolutely clueless to the true nature of the Universe.

@TheAstroChuck I love you.

@TheAstroChuck Jealous of your stupidity? - im assuming you failed basic Logic

0

Everything makes sense, except the non sequitur at the end, “which is god”.

0

I'd say "Hi, nice to meet you, guess I have no choice but to obey you" to such an established law.

To you I'd ask "Which God? So many conflicting ones to choose from.".

1of5 Level 8 Mar 18, 2019
0

God will always be said to exist just beyond where known science stops...except knowledge of science keeps growing, and so the god adherents must keep moving their goalposts. Our scientific knowledge stops at the big bang, or nanoseconds after it, more rightly. It doesn't take long to discover, even in near modern times, where the goal posts used to be...for we did not always have the theory of the big bang. We may, one day, discover more about prior to the big bang...or at least discover theories that scientifically prove prior to big bang. So... Ta-da. Their argument rendered moot! (Root: which side is moving the goalposts, and who is gaining ground and who is losing? And, has it effectively always moved in that direction?).

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Pure horse crap. The process of creation of the universe is theorized and there may even be many universes (the multi-verse) [space.com]

This sounds like the watch maker hypothesis. Someone must have created watches as they cannot create themselves. So that means the watchmaker created itself. I don't think so. Remember, all these 'god' theories seem to have human at the center. It's called a conflict of interest.

@ToolGuy My comment was about the idea of a god behind the creation of the universe. This comes from others without a basic knowledge of science. I have a minor (HS and college) background in Physics and a degree and experience in the field of applied electronics. I also am fascinated about science (theoretical and applied) and understand often the two go hand-in-hand. I also understand that even some' verified' ideas turn out to be false. No one person has knowledge of all the hundreds of fields and even some specialists (I have met many) have no idea of how their area fits into the whole. I consider myself a generalist with some additional knowledge in some areas. I am also very much a pragmatist. I also do not assume because I disagree with someone else that they are ignorant.

@ToolGuy I went over my comment and see there was a miscommunication on my part. I was referring to the so called hypothesis by the religious that since a universe can't create itself then there must have been some other god force. I understand the tests of theories and that a scientific theory is actually more than just a theory (like the religious are always saying that evolution is only a theory. It is more than that). My problem, especially now, is that summer is quickly approaching and my time here is becoming limited and sometimes I answer in haste.

1

Maybe, maybe not, but even if creationists etc. overturn every scientific theory ever made, that does not provide any proof of god, it only says that we need a new theory of which god will only be one of thousands.

0

Go big or go home is my advice. Point out how the universe has been measured to be flat and is quite possibly uniformly flat on large scales. If this is the case, (honestly we don't know yet but the evidence is favorable) then the net energy of the universe is zero, implying that the law of conservation of energy would not be violated, and all the positive mass/energy in the universe equals the amount of negative energy. Think of it like taking out a 0% interest loan from the bank. If you have $0 you can do nothing. if you have $1,000 and -$1,000 debt you can buy $1,000 of stuff.

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Ummmm, there may very well be "something" , a force, a ray, a particle, etc.that we have not yet postulated a theory about.
But how do you, or anyone, immediately leap to the ASSumption it would be some kind of gawd?

2

Nature always was, which means that things evolved and were not created.

cava Level 7 Mar 18, 2019
2

Simple. Ok, you are standing by a law of science so stand by it: how did god get energy? And keep a science answer, no bullshit he always had it Crap without proof.

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