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Over the summer My daughter (16yrs old) & I were at an award ceremony for a program she is in. The program is government funded & its offered through the local community college. At the beginning of the ceremony the speaker asked everyone to pray. My daughter is also an atheist (she is actually more vocal about it than me). Usually in these situations, I just sit quietly and wait but my daughter was sitting there making noises, purposely tapping on the table, & giggling (the noise making was actually not that loud, only the immediate surrounding could actually here her/us). I was pretty annoyed with her and was telling her to at least respect their praying & to sit quietly but she responded with "I don't believe in God, why should I sit through this?" I tried to explain that she was being disrespectful for being disruptive. My issue was more with being disruptive & disrespectful. But she has a point and I was annoyed, myself, that this is not a religious program and I felt like they shouldn't have even prayed.... How would any of you have handle the situation? How do you feel about speakers asking everyone to pray when this isn't a church or affiliated, at all, with religion?

BethyLou 5 Nov 9
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17 comments

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0

One state college I taught at invited a board of trustee member to address the graduating class. As a very religious man, his speech was one big sermon. Faculty members stood and turned their backs to the stage in protest. As an adjunct, I feared giving the administration any reason to refuse to hire me full-time, so I sat there. Then the speaker claimed the only true word was in the bible and everything written in other books was a lie. That did it. I defiantly stood up and protested too. BTW I received a full-time offer within two years, so it didn't hurt my career.

1

I had always been polite when a speaker starts a program with a prayer. However, I no longer woudl go to support the event/program in the future.

In retrospect my actions were pointless, in that I never let them know why I never came back. However, your daughter's story kind of makes me think I shoudl let them know shoudl it ever happen again.

4

Most of us are cowards when it comes to situations as this. However, my late partner was not and it was to the point of often being embarrassing. The thing is she was always right and people listened and backed off. This sort of thing is unconstitutional, illegal, rude and on and on. It needs to be addressed. Freedom From Religion Foundation receives dozens of such happenings every day and send letters to the offending group. It seldom leads to a lawsuit but when it does 90% of the time FFRF wins (there are still partial judges around). Your daughter was right and needs encouragement to ratchet up her feelings. She needs to be encouraged. Silence means assent and this is dangerous especially in these times. Remember, it is the pushing of some peoples religiosity on others that is disrespectful!

1

This sort of thing happens often in this nice, but rather holy-roller town. It annoys the hell out of me. The assumption that everyone at the event/gathering/whatever, is into a certain religion. I remain respectful, but to anyone watching me, it would be clear I am not participating. No bowed head, no pretend prayer ... blah-blah-blah

1

Separation of church and state apparently doesn't exist anymore. I don 't believe that a program that is federally funded should include prayer (See previous statement). I personally applaud your daughter if it were family then I would agree with you. Better to upset strangers than family.

2

HOT BUTTON! There are options, in my humble opinion. Pray loudly in gibberish. Ask for a moment of science. Clap when the praying is done. Strip down and announce, "This is how we pray!" When the speaker asks everyone to pray, loudly ask, "WHY?". I could go on...
I would register a complaint with the administration. Also, I would probably just be patient and let my daughter do her own thing. When the complaints about her behavior come rolling in, support her. You're already a good dad.

1

I think that in the situation, You would have been well within your rights to immediately get to your feet and object to the speaker's request, and point out to him/her that this was not a church or religious program and to please get on with the business at hand. This course of action may have brought disapproval at the time but also possibly respect for your position.

2

Like others have already suggested picking a better time to express your disagreement to the situation has better results than just blurting it out. Although, now that I think about it blurting it out might call to attention that this is not acceptable. If someone was doing something that affected you immediately and you objected to it would it not be preferable to immediately tell them to stop? There is something to really consider here.

SamL Level 7 Nov 9, 2017
3

I think you've already hit the nail on the head. It's about respect for other people's beliefs, even if you don't agree with them. Just as I would expect them to respect mine if I chose not to pray with them.

4

In that i agree with your daughter, however I would have just sat through it with eyes wide open quietly. I wish i had her chutzpah. i have been through something similar at family gatherings where jesus is being thanked for everything from the food to earthquake survivors. I agree it is annoying.
Since this is a public community college and not affiliated with any church i don't they should have payed before the ceremony. I would be interested to know if this school is in a southern bible belt state?

LOL, we are in SE Texas. Just little outside of Houston. 😀

3

I probably would have joined her, even if she were not my daughter - but as she was my daughter, I would have applauded her & encouraged her to speak her mind & show that the speaker/presenter was being disrespectful of her by forcing her to sit through their religious nonsense in that way, in a ceremony that should NOT have included the intrusion of their religious beliefs. I understand being respectful & accommodating of others beliefs, but NOT when those beliefs are intrusive onto mine.

4

There should not have been a prayer at a public educational institution. Still, we have to educate our children to pick our battles. If we are always fighting you become the issue.

3

Respect and good manners are a reflection of ourselves. I would sit quietly and expect my underage offspring to do the same. If I want my right to choose to be respected then I also have to respect the rights of others to do the same.

Betty Level 8 Nov 9, 2017

I totally agree and that is actually essentially what I told her. ???? But I was still annoyed with the fact that they even led a prayer.

Questioning the status quo on religions is still in its infancy. Forums like this are fairly new. Have patience, a change is coming.

Expecting change to come from others is passing the buck. If one is not willing to speak out one should not complain. It is difficult especially in a room full of people but I bet there are many in the crowd that feel the same way.

I don't agree. The conversation is more common now than ever, in my experience. People who used to practice their religion regularly are becoming non-practicing. It is easier for them to question some of the teachings and to converse about contradictions. In a group setting, it is harder to get support than it is on a one to one basis.

I'm not expecting change, I am welcoming change.

3

I agree with Buddha, carefully think over what the backlash could be if you were to protest loudly in public.
In some cases, people have been harshly ostracised for their opposing opinions even though it shouldn't be done and they know it.
Sometimes you are forced to pick your battles.

Part of me agrees and part disagrees. Persona and body language can go a loooong way toward acceptance. I belong to a travel group, SERVAS Int'l and spoke out about the intrusion of religion. I was somewhat ostracized. However, my late wife did the same and even stopped prayers being said at gatherings and she was asked to be the regional Western US) coordinator. I am an older, introverted white male and she was a petite, dark haired, extremely extroverted and personable Iranian female. Who the messenger is matters a lot. Being a teenage female helps her so the critical issue would be her manner of protest.

@JackPedigo When you say a travel group did you mean you went to places or towns where didn't live?
The woman and her daughter in the OP have to deal with their actions in the town where they live, their neighbors coulld get downright nasty towards them, even dangerous.

6

the person who objects should not be in any way at risk of not getting the award

not that religious people are vindictive of course...

7

Government funded programs legally can't lead off with a prayer, but it's also normal for them to not follow their own rules.

6

I think that you handled it correctly.
No reason to disrupt their ritual.
I'm guessing the social repercussions wouldn't be worth the hasserl..

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