I've noticed that Pro-lifers love to invoke the Commandment "thu shalt not kill", taken from the Jewish Torah. However, throughout both the new and the old testament, god commands his followers to stone to death children, women, infidels, and even slaughter whole villages. So, which is it? Doesn't this glaring contradiction prove the folly of religion? I would love to heard a Priest try to justify this. Can you imagine Pat Robertson explaining this one? Also, a transexual was beaten up by a couple of men recently in Dallas. We seem to be entering the dark ages where sanctimonious idiots think it's righteous to attack people who are different than them. Wonder where this mentality comes from? The comments were even more disturbing, with the majority claiming that the trans got want "he" deserved, because, ya know, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
What god really meant is “thou shalt not decide to kill but if I tell you to, on the double.” That’s the serious reason they use among themselves. I was always taught that god can decide who to kill no problem, all life belongs to him so he can take it. They teach that not even your own life is yours so suicide is a sin; yet god can make you suffer through life or death at will for as long as he pleases, but any personal agency would be wrong. Why make a bunch of freewheeling motherfuckers and punish them for adhering to their nature, which you gave them? If you wanted automatons make a robot. I didn’t decide to be here but I will damn sure decide what I do with the predicament. Don’t make apes and complain when they don’t behave like machines, and don’t piss on my leg n tell me it’s raining. For the love of a capitalized Genius.
Sorry I was possessed by judge Judy for a moment.
Yeah, well God actually didn't create Adam and Eve first, that would have been Adam and Lilith, but that fable isn't at all good for business when pushing family values.
If the majority of believers had actually bothered to read the Bible(s), they'd either be horrified or horrified. You can't cherry-pick away everything and you'd have to scrap both the Old & New Testament because they're both riddled with shit that would make it impossible to follow and is so bloody fantastical one would have to be 3/4 whacked to even consider it being something more than fan fiction.
Fun Biblical Facts (no such thing as "Facts" in fiction, but ...)
God murdered 2,038,344 people, Satan murdered 10
They explain it away with "divine command theory."
"Divine Command Theory includes the claim that morality is ultimately based on the commands or character of God, and that the morally right action is the one that God commands or requires." [iep.utm.edu]
Here's an example by apologist William Lane Craig: (3 minutes)
I believe it was Elizabeth Cady Staton who commented on the fact the bible always says what the person wants it to, or something close to that. they pick and chose what they want to believe and will condem you to hell for disagreeing with them. A pox on all of them!
LOL There's a Texas representative who introduced a bill to criminalize abortions with the death penalty. That's the right to lifers for you!
I was dating a woman who was heavily into the Pro life movement. I went to Washington with her for a rally they were having. They were trying to get the support of a Jewish group. When they met with the group, They were given a handout with the pertinent verses in the Torah that disagreed with their pro life agenda. The group was literally plotting to kill the reps from the group. the planned assassination was forgotten when they started planning a counter demonstration to the peace demonstration that was protesting the invasion of Iraq.
I was put on their shit list when I pointed out that they were a Pro life group that was demonstrating for War!
The pro lifers all, in my experience, are fueled by their blind self righteousness, and belief they are saving the world. Reasonable people need not apply.
This from the July, 2017 issue of the "Humanist" magazine: "IN THE BEGINNING it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.” I don’t know if you heard that bad excuse for homophobia growing up, but I did. The problem is that it’s wrong in every possible way. There’s absolutely nothing correct about that statement."[thehumanist.com]
The get out of stoning of course, was that no one individual did the killing, at least in bronze age eyes, the victim just died. It was the ultimate get out of responsibility free card, for the moral coward who wanted their sadistic pleasure without individual guilt.
I've met several pro-life atheists. I've found at least a dozen on this page, pretty sure I'm in a chat with one now.
My best friend is pro-life atheist, stating his argument concisely it's basically each life only has one shot. There's no soul, no pre-life or after life therefore we shouldn't negate any life's opportunity
I don't agree with him, but our 27 year history of respectful discussions gives me some hope people can have productive and respectful disagreements.
As a former christisn I know how stupid and Illogical typical athrist looks when pointing out biblical text as they often like to do.
"thu shalt not kill", taken from the Jewish Torah. You say. Do you not understand the torah WAS the laws of Israel prior to 2000 years ago.
Do you not understand Jurisdiction AND time? Christians do not hold to biblical text because they expect it to be reestablished.
Torah (/ˈtɔːrə, ˈtoʊrə/; Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction", "Teaching" or "Law" ) has a range of meanings. It can most specifically mean the first five books (Pentateuch) of the 24 books of the Tanakh, and it is usually printed with the rabbinic commentaries (perushim)
Torah. biblical text has ways of bring useful for teaching, giving instructions or explaining morals based on the written stories.
Take the American code. the federal laws that follow the U.S. Constitution and take them to another county with completely different laws and try to tell them they must abide and change to the American code.
So, pointing out to and comparing what Christians are wanting for laws now as compared to what wsd in torah really makes illogical atheist look stupider.
They cherry pick their book and take what they want out of it, then use apologetics to explain something else away. Jesus wasn't going to change "one jot or tittle" of any of it but that was before we had the Internet and could easily find the contradictions. Imagine that you could believe the entire world came from just 2 people, then one of your sons went off into another land to find his wife. Kinda funny, huh? As for the 2 men in Dallas who beat up the transexual, possibly they came from Adam and Steve. At best they are nothing but misinformed egotistical turds!
I think that many Christians see the don’t kill commandment with more. Modern eyes and recognise that it was immediately contradicted by other commandments around it. I’ve not see it used in the abortion debate
The much better ground for them i think is the ‘all life is human so abortion is murder’ line. I find that deeply problematic too for a pretty long list of reasons, but at least it’s vaguely coherent. For that argument you can at least get down to a discussion of what is a human: definition territory. It’s not satisfactory of course because it becomes a matter of opinion.
Suggesting a biological basis for a definition of humanity is impossible with any scientific integrity but a philosophical human? Ok - if you like. (To be clear - I don’t like). But if we use the word murder, we recognise that somewhere we are humans and there is a certain onus on those of us who say this is murder and this isn’t, to explain ourselves. I do so without hesitation but that’s much sounder ground for the anti-abortion position than the alternative of you can’t murder because the bible says so.