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I've noticed that Pro-lifers love to invoke the Commandment "thu shalt not kill", taken from the Jewish Torah. However, throughout both the new and the old testament, god commands his followers to stone to death children, women, infidels, and even slaughter whole villages. So, which is it? Doesn't this glaring contradiction prove the folly of religion? I would love to heard a Priest try to justify this. Can you imagine Pat Robertson explaining this one? Also, a transexual was beaten up by a couple of men recently in Dallas. We seem to be entering the dark ages where sanctimonious idiots think it's righteous to attack people who are different than them. Wonder where this mentality comes from? The comments were even more disturbing, with the majority claiming that the trans got want "he" deserved, because, ya know, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

By friendlycatlady5
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6

If you want consistency don't look for it in the bible or it's adherents. You'll just get a headache.

1of5 Level 7 Apr 14, 2019

lol, read this after I posted, but you beat me to it

4

I think Pro-lifers can take their bible and stick it where the sun don't shine.

4

What god really meant is “thou shalt not decide to kill but if I tell you to, on the double.” That’s the serious reason they use among themselves. I was always taught that god can decide who to kill no problem, all life belongs to him so he can take it. They teach that not even your own life is yours so suicide is a sin; yet god can make you suffer through life or death at will for as long as he pleases, but any personal agency would be wrong. Why make a bunch of freewheeling motherfuckers and punish them for adhering to their nature, which you gave them? If you wanted automatons make a robot. I didn’t decide to be here but I will damn sure decide what I do with the predicament. Don’t make apes and complain when they don’t behave like machines, and don’t piss on my leg n tell me it’s raining. For the love of a capitalized Genius.

Sorry I was possessed by judge Judy for a moment.

Wurlitzer Level 8 Apr 14, 2019
4

Yeah, well God actually didn't create Adam and Eve first, that would have been Adam and Lilith, but that fable isn't at all good for business when pushing family values.

If the majority of believers had actually bothered to read the Bible(s), they'd either be horrified or horrified. You can't cherry-pick away everything and you'd have to scrap both the Old & New Testament because they're both riddled with shit that would make it impossible to follow and is so bloody fantastical one would have to be 3/4 whacked to even consider it being something more than fan fiction.

Fun Biblical Facts (no such thing as "Facts" in fiction, but ...)
God murdered 2,038,344 people, Satan murdered 10

This is true, but to avoid all of that you just keep on going to church 2 or 3 times a week and believe everything that the pastor tells you. Just recently a believer told me that I'm "in denial." It's the only answer he will accept. He doesn't get it when I ask him "in denial of what?" Show me the proof of what I am in denial of.

@DenoPenno You know ... faith. The truth is just having faith. 😴😴😴😴

I have faith there's no proof. That's my faith. 😛

You would think any and all would be horrified but people actually complied the book. Unfortunately, the horrifying truth is that people do actually read the whole thing sometimes and believe it all.

4

They explain it away with "divine command theory."

"Divine Command Theory includes the claim that morality is ultimately based on the commands or character of God, and that the morally right action is the one that God commands or requires." [iep.utm.edu]

Here's an example by apologist William Lane Craig: (3 minutes)

My gob is totally smacked. I have never heard anything like this before. A pity god wouldn't end this arsehole's life.

@Moravian It is shocking, to say the least, but not to most conservative Christians. It alleviates their cognitive dissonance.

@VictoriaNotes I have read the first books of the old testament in detail and it is my firm belief that the Jewish people invented yaweh to justify their warlike behaviour. I noticed that the children who were killed were Canaanite so of less value than Jewish children. Canaan was given to the people by their god anyway so all of the people were expendable and had to be removed.

So by this exact logic, believers can righteously kill anyone who they believe God condemns, including but not limited to homosexuals, abortionists, Jews, Muslims, heretics, etc.... Guess the Ten commandments exempt these rules for these individuals?

@friendlycatlady As I understand it, the 10 Commandments were intended for the in-group. Outsiders were fair game as clearly demonstrated in Numbers 31 between God and Moses.

@friendlycatlady True. And it is scary.

Sadly, this video reflects similar ideas I was taught in my former religion. It's the result of believing the Bible is absolutely true and that God is absolutely good and right. Since those things have to be true, there has to be some explanation about why this was okay.

However, I never did figure out why, if God needed all those people dead, he couldn't just wave his hand and kill them all off. Apparently, he needed people to do his dirty work for him. Sets up a situation where people can say, God told me to do it so I had to. smile003.gif

@Meili " Apparently, he needed people to do his dirty work for him."

How telling.

"Sets up a situation where people can say, God told me to do it so I had to."

Exactly. No one in my family or extended family actually read the bible. They were spoonfed. I did, and as I studied it, I was stunned and sickened. It was the main reason I deconverted. Before my deconversion, I asked clergies a lot of questions and I always got the typical reply that "God's ways were higher than ours", and to "not lean on our own understanding." I couldn't, in good conscience, worship such a god, much less spend eternity with those who justified such behaviour.

3

Yes, that book is pretty inconsistent.

IowaWoman Level 4 Apr 14, 2019
3

I believe it was Elizabeth Cady Staton who commented on the fact the bible always says what the person wants it to, or something close to that. they pick and chose what they want to believe and will condem you to hell for disagreeing with them. A pox on all of them!

BillF Level 7 Apr 14, 2019

And pick and choose something different tommorow if that suits them then, But they have god on their side, so it must be true.

3

They seem to have no compunction about starting wars, bombing people, using depleted uranium on them, using white phosphorous on them, gassing them, killing their kids by economic blockades and sanctions.

THHA Level 7 Apr 14, 2019
2

LOL There's a Texas representative who introduced a bill to criminalize abortions with the death penalty. That's the right to lifers for you!
I was dating a woman who was heavily into the Pro life movement. I went to Washington with her for a rally they were having. They were trying to get the support of a Jewish group. When they met with the group, They were given a handout with the pertinent verses in the Torah that disagreed with their pro life agenda. The group was literally plotting to kill the reps from the group. the planned assassination was forgotten when they started planning a counter demonstration to the peace demonstration that was protesting the invasion of Iraq.
I was put on their shit list when I pointed out that they were a Pro life group that was demonstrating for War!
The pro lifers all, in my experience, are fueled by their blind self righteousness, and belief they are saving the world. Reasonable people need not apply.

Stevil Level 8 Apr 15, 2019
2

Thou shalt not kill means 'thou shalt not murder. A person being stoned to death is justified as being lawful punishment for particular crimes and thus not murder. I have heard this commandment used by anti abortion folks.

NancyDrew Level 3 Apr 14, 2019
2

This from the July, 2017 issue of the "Humanist" magazine: "IN THE BEGINNING it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.” I don’t know if you heard that bad excuse for homophobia growing up, but I did. The problem is that it’s wrong in every possible way. There’s absolutely nothing correct about that statement."[thehumanist.com]

I’ve heard my former preacher say that along with if you don’t get saved you’re gonna be a crispy critter. Notice I said former. Don’t know how anyone could joke about Hell if it were real.

@abyers1970 Remember, your former minister and in fact all ministers have a deep conflict of interest in making people believe their crap. To start with money is involved and then control and lots of other things. These people really need another job.

2

The get out of stoning of course, was that no one individual did the killing, at least in bronze age eyes, the victim just died. It was the ultimate get out of responsibility free card, for the moral coward who wanted their sadistic pleasure without individual guilt.

Fernapple Level 8 Apr 14, 2019
2

Most of them have no idea of all the bad shit in the Bible. They only know what they are spoon fed by the Church.

Sticks48 Level 9 Apr 14, 2019

As a former Christian, you are correct. You emphasis Jesus and Golden rule and all good things and only bring out the bad when you trying to straighten people out.

2

I've met several pro-life atheists. I've found at least a dozen on this page, pretty sure I'm in a chat with one now.

My best friend is pro-life atheist, stating his argument concisely it's basically each life only has one shot. There's no soul, no pre-life or after life therefore we shouldn't negate any life's opportunity

I don't agree with him, but our 27 year history of respectful discussions gives me some hope people can have productive and respectful disagreements.

I had to see your location, because I've heard these seem contentions from people in Utah and yep, you're from Utah. Weird! I have to think, there's something in the water. 🙂

I've never heard that take on abortion from any self-labeled Atheist not in Utah. And what actually was the truth about the 5 or 6 I know? They were ex-Mormon. And that's a whole lot of de-programming, some that never truly leaves ie: some fantastical view of life beginning at conception. (It may not be the same with the people you mention, but I'm guessing there's some deep-seated reasons they're carrying this theory that a zygote is a life.)

@SeaGreenEyez lol, actually I grew up in Brown County, Indiana. That best friend is a special ed teacher in Indianapolis. LOL small world huh?

I've only lived in Utah for three years, as odd as it sounds I can't think of a single pro-life friend here. Sure I've met a handful of pro-lifers in Utah but we just haven't connected. My dog park and game night friends are mostly hard left.

That best friend is fairly odd. He's always lived in Indiana, and except for college in Bloomington has lived around Indy.

About the 4th grade he decied he was atheist and after annoying his mom for over a year, she relented and let him stop going to church. I wish I'd been that smart in elementary school!

@SeaGreenEyez The error is that human life is considered sacred but non-human is not sacred. In the minds of some, non-human includes other races. The sacredness of life is their premise. To be an atheist is to affirm that human life is NOT sacred or at least no more sacred than the other life forms. But caring for one another and the planet is amongst the highest values for atheists. If life is NOT sacred then one less potential human life is not that serious a matter so abortion is acceptable and the woman’s decision. But theists do not see life that way and market their product by selling people on their specialness and uniqueness — God even sees the fallen sparrow.

@ToolGuy I'm not sure what or who these Atheists are that you type of. 🤔

Atheists are not carbon copies of one another, there is no universal ideology on what's most important, be that human beings, animals, the planet, the solar system, or even extra-terrestrials. I certainly don't know these Christians you seem to be polarizing. I don't know one Christian (and I know loads of them) that think human life is above all else, they simply think their people are above all else.

I'm not certain if you're comments are misleading what you wanted to say, or if you really do think all Atheists are somehow less individual than others, likewise, all Christians think/are the same. I don't subscribe to the ideas you state here. Human life is absolutely "sacred" and so are other life forms. So is the planet. At least to me. (Although I wouldn't use that word, it stinks of religion.)

I'm totally confused. We were talking about abortion. 🤔🤔🤔🤔

@SeaGreenEyez Not sure that you read my comment carefully but then maybe I was being obscure. And I was not talking about ideology. I was talking about values so I could have been more clear about that I guess.

@educatedredneck So was the friend exmo though? Just curious.

@educatedredneck HAHAHA! Small world indeed! We traded spots. 😂 Do you wonder how you traded the Bible Belt for Mormon Country? I just wonder how I escaped one, landing in the other. I'm planning my escape as I type. 😁

@SeaGreenEyez lol, you're from Utah? That's hilarious!

So far I haven't minded Utah, but I hang out in wine bars, coffee shops...and most of my friends are either Unitarian Universalists or academics. LDS has practically no impact on my daily life.

Where do you want to escape to?

@educatedredneck Idaho. Utah sprawl. The LSD Church impacts everyone's lives. From politics to daily living. Funny thing though? Abortions. Cheap and found just about everywhere. Why? Those little LDS girls can't be all knocked up, ya know. 😉

Utah's interesting. The Sinaloa's, the LGBTQ community mixed in with the Mormons. Strangely diverse for sure.

My next escape? To the country known as The Pacific Northwest. 🙂

@SeaGreenEyez LDS still have too much power here, but it's waning fast. A friend's daughter was booted from a court room for porn shoulders! Lol but enough complained it didn't happen again a few weeks later.

Did you see gays aren't apostate anymore? Yeah I know baby steps.

Sure LDS still push insanity on sex ed and a few other things.

We'll have medical marijuana next year and the more heretics who move here the better things will be.

I don't mind some LDS influence, they just passed .05 BAC door drunk driving and we we're already one of the safest for drunk driving. Ogden also paired w LDS to refurbish several downtown homes that could only be sold to moderate ince and no rentals. They also fund halfway houses for felons getting out of jail, I know bc a friend who is an antagonistic atheist told them Ill never be LDS but I'll take help to get me back on my feet afyer being in prison.

Lol about cheap abortions, I didn't know that but it makes a lot of sense.

Btw good luck in the Pacific NW, its gorgeous but cost of living seems almost as high as Cali.

@educatedredneck Utah is quite progressive on social issues. I give The Church credit for that. They don't want people knowing it's the Heroin Hub of the nation, so they whitewash. I'm OK with that because it does more good than harm.

Hahaha! I forgot about porn shoulders. 😂😂😂

I can't go to a civilized nation (ie: PNW) for a while. It'll be 2020, I'm guessing. Which, if the Mental Midget wins again, or does away with democracy altogether, I'll be changing my plans. I'll be that little white woman going over The Wall southbound. 😉

2

Never apply logic to religion, it doesn't work with theists and only gives the rest of us a headache.

LOL, the astonishing flexibility in god's immutable morality pushed me away from xtianity in seminary.

2

They're hypocrites, and they cherry-pick which parts of the bible they'll
follow and which parts they'll ignore.
They have no credibility. There is no reason to respect their beliefs.

KKGator Level 9 Apr 14, 2019
1

"Scriptures" of often contradict themselves. What's new?

Bobby9 Level 8 Apr 15, 2019

@Antifred Both the old and new testaments contridict themselves.

@Antifred They make no sense to me, They are self contradictions, makeing no sense.

1

It’s been estimated that God killed an estimated 30 million people in Old Testament. Obviously do what I say and not as I do

1

They cherry pick their book and take what they want out of it, then use apologetics to explain something else away. Jesus wasn't going to change "one jot or tittle" of any of it but that was before we had the Internet and could easily find the contradictions. Imagine that you could believe the entire world came from just 2 people, then one of your sons went off into another land to find his wife. Kinda funny, huh? As for the 2 men in Dallas who beat up the transexual, possibly they came from Adam and Steve. At best they are nothing but misinformed egotistical turds!

DenoPenno Level 8 Apr 14, 2019
1

I think that many Christians see the don’t kill commandment with more. Modern eyes and recognise that it was immediately contradicted by other commandments around it. I’ve not see it used in the abortion debate

The much better ground for them i think is the ‘all life is human so abortion is murder’ line. I find that deeply problematic too for a pretty long list of reasons, but at least it’s vaguely coherent. For that argument you can at least get down to a discussion of what is a human: definition territory. It’s not satisfactory of course because it becomes a matter of opinion.

Suggesting a biological basis for a definition of humanity is impossible with any scientific integrity but a philosophical human? Ok - if you like. (To be clear - I don’t like). But if we use the word murder, we recognise that somewhere we are humans and there is a certain onus on those of us who say this is murder and this isn’t, to explain ourselves. I do so without hesitation but that’s much sounder ground for the anti-abortion position than the alternative of you can’t murder because the bible says so.

1

Reasonable thinking is antithetical for some

0

Fuck all religious hypocrites!

Mofo1953 Level 8 Apr 14, 2019
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