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The idea that we need a supernatural being to make us act morally assumes that there is something unnatural about morality.
~ Yuval Noah Harari

Benthoven 8 June 7
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1

That gives one basic ingredient that we need to live a meaningful life. I think another one is love.

1

I think there is something unnatural about the kind of “morality” needed for hunter-gatherers to live as farmers and city dwellers. The agricultural revolution came about too quickly for biological evolution to adjust. That adjustment had to be carried by culture instead. Organized religion developed to train H. sapiens how to live and function within large groups of strangers. This kind of morality (that requires extensive training and weekly reinforcement) is not found elsewhere in “nature”. Other species display varying degrees of (biological) altruism toward kin and tribe, but none to my knowledge turn the other cheek to strangers, and humans didn’t either, before the agricultural revolution and the invention of organized religion, both artificial behaviors as far as “nature” is concerned.

skado Level 9 June 8, 2019
2

What we call a moral code has evolved - just like walking upright did - for the ability to survive. We learned to co-exist in a group for better survival. This meant protecting the weak and the young for better survival of the group. We are not the only specie to do this. These clans or tribes evolved into city-states and what we call civilization. Yet we continue to express the original traits of waring tribalism through ideological, religious, and racist persecution? We may not be as advanced as we claim to be.

1

I agree that supernatural belief and religion failed to harness immorality . But I suppose what really is unnatural is immorality not morality , if humans realize that
there's no rationality in immorality . Immorality is only the outcome of human egoism and sense of pleasure that's instinctual and not rational .

1

Yet there are examples galore of habitual criminals and miscreants who reformed themselves with the help of religion. Is there anything wrong with that?

The idea of repentance and absolution are religious concepts that somehow expunge the transgression - as many religious believers and religious leaders think it is okay to lie, steal, and cheat all week as long as you say your are sorry on Sunday.

If that is, in fact, what happened. I have observed that what they end up doing is trading one crutch for another. Jesus helps them get sober, but now they're overly possessive and need to make everyone believe as they do... Most of the Christians I've come across, who used Jesus to get out of one bad part of their lives, also used him to excuse other aspects that were just as bad.

If someone finds Jesus, and they become kinder and more compassionate to others, I'm good with that. The same with Allah, Buddha, Chuck Norris, or Dean Winchester. A little help can go a long way.

2

People suck. They need to be told to suck less sadly. We're still animals and have those impulses. We made morality and I think has to be taught to fully understand and appreciate.

@Bobby9 I myself agree rape is bad, but other cultures throughout history might say different. Even in "modern" times there are examples of rapist having parental rights here in the US. We can't just assume people will be good just because you are. "Good" or "moral" is subject to circumstance and context.

I think what it comes down to is empathy. If you have empathy, and compassion, you will notice your actions hurt and harm others, and will try to correct that. If you don't, no amount of scripture is going to make you behave otherwise.

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