Agnostic.com

62 14

A lot of people here have arrived from religious backgrounds so I was wondering what your feelings are about abortion. If you had one would guilt follow you around for the rest of your life? What would it take for you to make that decision? I guess mostly women will answer this. Does the fetus have a soul?
For me, pregnancy is no guarantee of life, spontaneous abortions happen, late term ones do, rape would for sure be a reason to have one but there are also other situations in which I would basically because I don't believe there is a god to answer to after death.

K9Kohle789 8 Aug 7
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

62 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Wow, that's a heavy and very sensitive topic... even outside of religion. Hopefully I can put my thoughts out here without sticking my foot in it big time.

We all pretty much have to decide what is best for ourselves and drawing a line at dictating other people's choices and needs should be held in serious check. I feel that it's only a potential for life that slowly grows stronger throughout the pregnancy but is not fully realized until after the birth. Until it can survive outside the womb it is still a part of the woman's body and what happens with it should be her decision.

For me it's a medical procedure to be decided between a woman and her doctor according to her needs. If she feels a need to include the man involved then by all means, her choice. I would think it a good idea to include him for most cases either way but still, her body, her choice. Making those choices for others is just wrong on too many levels to count. It is really not an easy decision to make and to be questioning or putting pressure on someone who needs to make such a decision is just cruel.

As for the soul, no one really knows or can prove one way or another what it is, if it's real and if it were real, when it would actually enter the body. Older traditions and beliefs mostly say after it's born anyway, as it takes it's first breath. In some eras and cultures it was not until a child was blessed and often after a certain age because infant mortality rates were high. It seems now that the medical has that more under control and survivability is at its best, people feel the need to argue, and dictate, and control the choices of others and use religion or spirituality as a control factor for it.

AmyLF Level 7 Aug 26, 2019
1

I don't believe anyone has the right to dictate their belief system to another especially old white dudes to a woman about her body and life

bobwjr Level 10 Aug 22, 2019
1

I have and I don't have an ounce of guilt. I do not and will not ever see a clump of cells, a zygote, or a fetus as a person. When it gets to the point that it's a baby that can thrive without extreme medical issues its whole life, outside of the mother's body, that's a different story.

To make the decision? Do I want to be a parent and responsible for another human for the rest of my life? Do I have the time, energy, emotional and physical health, and most importantly, the financial resources?

Fetuses have no soul. Children have no souls. Adult humans have no souls. "Souls" in the traditional terminology.

0

In an over-crowded World, abortion is an ugly necessity.

Abortion has always been a necessary option for some women. Over-population isn't even a consideration.
There's nothing "ugly" about it, either.

0

Let's take emotion out of the decision and consider the practicalities.

Source:
0

A pregnancy is a miracle of nature, therefore how could anyone not be filled with awe or wonder.
a child is a life-changing event, requiring a great deal of sacrifice.
as a man I will never have to make that decision, if given the opportunity I would protect that live with all my heart and soul.

There is nothing "miraculous" about pregnancy or childbirth.
It is actually the most dangerous time in any pregnant woman's life.
Could we PLEASE stop romanticizing it?

Yes it is the most dangerous time that is why we rejoice when it works.
humans have difficult childbirth, probably a byproduct of upright walking.
I am told in medieval times a woman ran at 1 in 3 chance of dying in every labor.
I hold to the premise each birth is a miracle.

@m16566 Knock yourself out.

0

It's a sentimental question.

People need to keep their sentimentality over the issue to themselves.

1

It's a religious control issue nothing more women have the right to decide their own fate the soul is unknowable they want the religious state so they have power

bobwjr Level 10 Aug 10, 2019
2

I see abortion as an issue regarding bodily autonomy. And I absolutely think it is up to the woman involved to decide what is best for her and her life.

For me personally, I have never wanted children, so I would absolutely have an abortion if all preventative measures failed. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

2

This topic has been hashed over so many times, and still women for choice have to fight for that right. I personally have used this method, and I have also worked at Planned Parenthood. My background is a retired Labor and Delivery RN. So yes I have seen many sides of this issue. I have also marched for a woman's right to decide for herself. I have been spit at and called a murder. When at PP we were trapped in our clinic by demonstrators singing (get this) civil rights songs and holding pics of aborted fetuses. I eventually quit because of those hassles. My slogan has always been "My Body, My Choice". And I marched with a wire coat hanger on my head,both in the 70's and this year! Let's not go back to the time when women died trying to end a pregnancy they didn't want or couldn't care for. We have no right to judge because we are not walking in her shoes. Keep abortion safe and legal!!!!!

2

This guy thinks that’s up to women to make decisions on abortion.

2

I think this decision is best left to the woman or girl involved. However I fundamentally believe that medical terminations should be free at source for any person needing one.

2

I am pro legal abortion. Every person should decide in every situation, not the Government. Guilt would not follow me at all, but that depends on the way of being of each person

0

My granddaughter became pregnant at 17. I asked what sh wanted to do (she was not talking with her parents t that point). She decided to keep the pregnancy because she could not destroy something alive. She graduated high school but has not gone to college and does not work. She is now 18, has a one-year-old and is a happy camper, but living on the government doles because she cannot afford daycare. Her boyfriend is supporting them both and is starting to become frustrated. I did not agree with her position, but it is hers and hers alone to make.

0

Sorry short on time so can’t read all these replies so I’m not sure if this has been mentioned. I’ve decided to take Penn Gillette’s position on it. He described in an interview how a dr clued him in on this idea. We have a metric for end of life in brain wave measurements. We should apply that to the start of life. No brain waves no life and it can’t be murder to end the pregnancy. If you wait till there’s brain waves then you need to have a self preservation reason to abort.

I don't think any man has a right to an opinion on the subject.

0

This is a very interesting topic, as well as a touchy one. I agree with your stated opinions and would also add that illnesses might also be a reason to have one. As a cis man I will never have to make this decision towards myself but in a hypothetical relationship I might answer your first question. No, not guilt just a deep and profound sadness for the loss of what might have been but with the understanding that it was the right choice for the situation.

2

The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) have no problem with abortion. The cruel and unrealistic idea that "abortion is murder" was invented in the 1970's as a fundraising issue by fanatical evangelicals, then co-opted by unscrupulous politicians as a wedge issue.

1

We weren't going to have children when we married. We were going to have a fun and selfish life without contributing to overpopulation. However, inadvertently and shockingly I found myself pregnant. Seeing the ultrasound at 12 wks I was blown away. I thought then and there I would never have an abortion. I guess I had a 'spiritual' experience.....or at least, I was greatly moved.

I would never ever impose my beliefs on others and I stand for the rights of other women to choose. In fact I look around and wish half the population had been aborted. But not mine! never mine! lol. We went on to have three more babies.

0

Each person's decision to make on their own, hopefully with support from others either way.

3

I’m having a hard time thinking of any instance where an unwanted pregnancy isn’t a man fault.

I think abortion should be legal, safe and rare.

I think there’s plenty of room for both sides of the debate to join together and focus on preventing unwanted pregnancies, rather than abortions.

@vjohnson51
Still, with out him - there wouldn’t have been a pregnancy.
It was a crappy thing to do to him though.

@vjohnson51 Obviously I don't have any proof, but I found it very coincidental that my brother's wife became pregnant every time they were considering divorce.

@kiramea He could have used a condom.

3

It’s impossible to answer your question “if you had an abortion, would guilt follow you around for the rest of your life?” We can only guess how we’d feel, unless we have already had one that is, and even then it must entirely depend on the individual and the circumstances which necessitated the abortion.

My stance on abortion is an unemotional one, and never having had a religion it is not influenced by any religious arguments regarding whether life begins at conception or not, or the notional ideas regarding “souls “. I believe it is solely the mother’s right to choose whether she continues with a pregnancy or not. If the pregnancy has not resulted from rape, then her partner should be consulted and his wishes considered, but ultimately it’s her decision, and should be a medical and not a legal matter. I cannot imagine, that were it the case that it was the male of the species who had the womb and got pregnant, and not the female, that we’d still be arguing about abortion in the 21st century. If that were the case, I think that there would be abortion on demand and a much lower birth rate!

0

I personally would never recommend it and would try to convince my partner to not do it if she wanted (of course given that it is a normal no risk, well formed fetus), but i recognize that anyone should be free to do it.
And even if someone's think it is wrong, there is the argument that any anti abortion law is an useless law, this act is so particular and so easily done in secrecy or during some travel that forbidding it is just denying the quality of the service for the ones that can't pay for it. The only way to really enforce this kind of law would be to kill all privacy of citizens, and we really do not want it... right?

you don't think that the world is already overpopulated with humans and that they might be doing the world a favour. I am certainly against abortions for polar bears and koalas because they're endangered but there is nothing special about humans.....they're everywhere.

@MsDemeanour nah, we can sustain even 10 bi with current state technology, the problem is that we are uneven, we waste resources and the logistic infrastructure is in average very bad.
Plus, there are other more efficient ways of population control other than abortion, this discussion is not about it. I I was thinking about not having kids I would rather do a vasectomy for instance.

@Pedrohbds In just 30 yrs the world will have a population of near 10 billion. What do you propose then?

@MsDemeanour I suggest let people do their own choice. Besides we already broke Malthusian scaling of resources many times. Even if we do not do it now, what can we do? Forcefully sterilize people? Do like China and say 1 kid per person? (it did not work).
Anyway, birth rates are falling in all places, maybe we need only one more Malthusian break and we will achieve an equilibrium anyway.

2

A fetus is a PARASITE (Google the definition of "parasite" ) in every sense of the word. Does anyone get all teary-eyed over tapeworms/roundworms/hookworms? None of my business what anyone chooses to do with their insides........

My youngest is 20 and still a bloody parasite! He lives at home, contributes nothing, eats my food, uses my utilities and takes up a heap of space. He is at least amusing which is why I keep him. The day he no longer amuses me, I'll get the fly swatter out and flick him out.

0

I say go for it.

Edu_0 Level 4 Aug 7, 2019
1

I think we sometimes forget that it is not a solely feminist procedure.

Men are also impacted by abortion. Perhaps a focus on male would also be worthy of consideration.

@NoPlanetB A man is still the father of the child. From the commentary I see around the subject this is never discussed. I agree it is a female decision but not to acknowledge the man’s psychological perspective seems like the militant feminism of the 70’s.

@GodlessMimi They are impacted psychologically. I am not saying that men should make any decision on the mother’s decision. I am pointing out that a male psychological perspective is not considered.

@GodlessMimi, @NoPlanetB Sorry the comment is better read as female rather than ‘feminist’

@Geoffrey51 maybe he should have considered wearing a condom...or keeping it in his pants?

@AnneWimsey maybe.

@Geoffrey51 See my comment above for more details but in my opinion, if the man has impregnated a woman without her consent, he should be held responsible for that. His responsibility lies before the question of abortion comes into play where he actually has control over what he is doing.

@UpsideDownAgain not saying it isn’t but there are some cases where men are effected emotionally. Of. Ourselves it is a woman’s decision, I am not denying that for one moment, but in some cases men require some emotional support as well. Other considerations which don’t acknowledge that are heading for the resurgence of feminist militancy.

I understand it is a sensitive issue but one that is not only I’ll-considered but vilified as shown here.

Forever men have imposed their will over women. Finally, we are getting a say on what should be an automatic right to our own body and Now you want to lay a guilt trip on us.

We have no right to impose our will on what anyone else does with their body and there's an end to it.

@MsDemeanour Not at all. No guilt trip intended. Just saying there is another side. Not all men are abusive predators!

@Geoffrey51 oh god i know that! I spelled out to my sons as teens just what would be the consequences and their responsibilities if they got someone pregnant. I told them to never believe a girl who said she was on the pill and to take responsibility for contraception.

I'm now thinking that a 'surprise' pregnancy wouldn't be such a bad thing because I would love to be a grandma and nothing seems likely on the horizon in the near future.

Why yes! Yes, men should be included in the conversation. Hey, how about this? End the toxic masculinity plaguing our nation. Let's see more dialogue engaging our young men and boys in how to acknowledge and deal with emotions. Let's tell them it's ok to do and say and be without fear of breaking out of the tight prison we force them into so they can be ridiculed and tagged as gay.
Let's see a louder social discourse on how females are people too and that bodily autonomy is a thing. Let's educate them about sex and male and female bodies and how they really work outside religious strictures and pornhub.
The ignorance of many men is EPIC. What's maddening is that despite the ability to fix it, the toxic males who grew up in the toxicity are providing the worst example for our young men now.

@GodlessMimi ain't that the truth????!!!!

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:385200
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.