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Do you think sociopaths and psychopaths can't really help their actions since they didn't really choose to be born with it, so is it really their fault? Or do you think sociopaths or psychopaths know exactly what they're doing and actually can help it but they're just inhuman and evil?

One of my old counselors told me that sometimes people cannot control their thoughts but you CAN control your actions, the people who have bad thoughts but act on it are then feeding into their own selfish wants and desires. Thoughts? Thanks 🙂

vjohnson51 7 Aug 14
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Not trying to be snarky, wikipedia's article on psychopathy has a good explanation on the subject. Questions of law and safety aside, I don't think we should pass judgment on anybody by calling them inhuman or evil. We're all human.

Ted Bundy was not, and he said so. Neither is Manson .....the list goes on.

@AnneWimsey Their DNA says otherwise. So anyone who commits violence or kills people or facilitates violence isn't human? Or is it just to the degree that Bundy and/or Manson did it? We can also extend that to anyone who gets angry. So I guess there is a very small list of actual humans on this planet. I remember you having a lot of contempt for certain humans to the point where I don't think you would care if they died. Does that make you not human?

@Piece2YourPuzzle how do you get from Ted Bundy to "anyone who commits violence"?????? ROFLMAO

@AnneWimsey You mentioned Manson. He didn't kill anyone, but convinced his followers to carry out his orders.

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Generally I agree with the counselor’s sentiment. That seems to be true for most of us at least, and I have anecdotally heard of people who could be called sociopaths with a conscience. They may think cruel things but behave well and display empathetic behaviors whether or not they’re genuine.

I do think evidence supports a tragic level of determinism. Most everything seems like an inevitable reaction if you break it down far enough to cellular behavior and brain chemistry. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Between nature, nurture, and chaos, we definitely have less free will than many imagine, but the small part we may have offers just enough constraint to make creativity possible. Creativity is hard to accomplish without some limiting parameters to urge you in a certain direction. When you’ve only got a limited set of options, that’s when self expression becomes vital.

As I said on the last post I saw talking about free will today, I don’t believe we have much if any of it, strictly speaking, but it’s best to labor under the assumption that we do. People definitely can choose to better themselves, but whether or not they will could practically be biologically predestined for all I know. The notion I like regarding mental health is: thoughts are like birds. You can’t control which ones land on your head but you can decide which ones make a nest there.

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Sociopaths lack working mirror neurons (empathy) and so do not see the problem with harming others.

It's a hard problem.

The truth is that non-sociopaths have lots of emotions to help them see that maintaining trust relationships and social reciprocity is in their long term rational self interest, or we'd all tend to be selfish and self-serving. These emotions are both positive (e.g., the good feeling you get when you've earned security and trust in a social group, or when you help someone in need because you know that is likely to be generally reciprocated) and negative (e.g., guilt or shame when you harm others, or a sense of abandonment if socially shunned). Imagine having to slog through every day delaying personal gratification and doing the Right Thing when all it means to you is sacrificing what you want in the moment for some nebulous, abstract benefit that you never really FEEL and which may be some distance into the future.

That in itself is selfish and self serving though.

@Piece2YourPuzzle Yup. I'm not pushing for empathy for the un-empathetic. It is an explanation of the phenomenon, not an excuse.

Another takeaway for me is that to whatever extent I'm a good / kind / empathetic / ethical person, I should not get too big a head about it because I'm that way in large part because it feels good and/or avoids feeling bad. Sure, it's been reinforced over time, and made a habit, and has some virtuous inertia to it; and there are times when my forbearance and patience are tested, even with the support and reinforcement of how I feel about it all, and my perseverance in the face of that is to be commended. But if someone could go in and kill my mirror neurons, or do whatever it would require to render me sociopathic, I don't have any way of knowing how long I'd continue to act virtuous just on the raw knowledge that I "should" / "ought to".

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