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I have quite recently thought that perhaps most atheists etc. were indoctrinated into whatever religion their parents espoused and followed which claimed God as being loving, beneficent, nurturing, forgiving etc and grew up intelligently looking at a world of misery, horror, inequity, brutality, and deception and concluded that no God would ever condone or allow such a world and therefore quite logically there is no God. However, what if their perceptions of the world are more than quite accurate but that there is a ruling God that is malevolent, brutal, heinous, deceptive, monstrous, intolerant, and narcissistic? Just a hypothetical conjecture that may need or require some discussion, is all.........

ThomasWGilbert 2 Mar 18
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I think if you insist on seeing agency in life when it's just a series of stuff happening and not remotely personal, then it would at least be more intellectually honest to conclude that "the gods must be crazy".

However, agency inference is the basic problem here, it's better to deal in reality and not see agency where it doesn't actually exist.

Unfortunately I am not simply a believer in reincarnation, but a "knower" of it, and yes, the experience of agency has been very personal. The obfuscation and deception for all of us have been inordinately perfected, as all souls (our real selves) are immortal, really (have always been, always will be, are now) and the celestial ruling forces are a collective (Just like the BORG) that delight in having all of the the realms of materialization (There are many.) as a permanent amusement park that the downtrodden (us) are permanently entrapped in. Our celestial rulers have had an eternity, literally, to perfect this monstrosity (it's sort of like an infinite 4 dimensional video game in which we are the players/pieces going from level to level and dying very periodically over and over to return to the beginning. The only avatars or ascended masters to achieve any end point are actually all pre-selected to do so, so that it may seem that there are possibilities for transcendence, when in fact there are none, and that door is deliberately closed for all of us billions (this is true for all of the bullshit religions) in regards to salvation. Just my opinions; I could be very wrong. But personal experience with the bastards in charge tells me otherwise. What if Prometheus was an historical rather than a mythological figure, and the "fire" he stole from the gods was actually knowledge and wisdom he tried to give to the rest of humanity that just really pissed off the ruling forces? And think of the others who have vainly tried to do the same and have been thwarted in the process. Even Apollonius of Tyana, Thomas Paine, and even Tesla, received the same fates.

@ThomasWGilbert Thats a lot of very detailed assertions which I suspect you cannot substantiate. That is the problem with personal subjective experiences. Well, one of them. The other is that I could cull through the online conversations I've had over the years and find lots of earnest people with accounts that totally contradict yours. All, I'm sure, part of the "infinite 4 dimensional video game". This gets into the territory of questions like "what if we're all in the Matrix" or "what if you're just a brain in a vat". Well, the answer, unless you can somehow exit or alter the simulation to your advantage is, "it's not relevant because it's not actionable".

At any rate -- and I say this without an ounce of animus -- I wish you continued enjoyment of your heroic narrative and your starring role in it.

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Yes, we did note the discrepancies between theology and reality, and that was a major reason for freeing ourselves from all theology.

@wordywalt Theology is an empty / false discipline, of no actual utility outside its own navel-gazing interests. It is an attempt to systematize a faux knowledge base and harmonize it with itself, the relevant holy book(s)and with experienced reality. All of which is a fool's errand and just creates more problems than it solves.

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