I didn't know whether this belonged under politic, religion, or just sheer nonsense coming out of the Court of Appeals. I'm trying to figure out what happened to separation of church and state. I understand why the atheists did this in order to test law but I am flabbergasted. Geeze and I so wanted to be able to offer up a prayer in our state capitol.
Court rules that Atheists cannot offer prayer in the PA State House.
[dailywire.com]
2
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.How about under ignorance and stupidity
bobwjr
Level 10
Aug 29, 2019
1
This is happening in my state and I'm horrified.
@AmelieMatisse not so much here luckily
@bobwjr PA is still red but at least moving toward purple. Our governor is progressive nut his house is not.
@AmelieMatisse yeah that's why I stay here in a progressive state
The Establishment Clause ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." ) seems to have no effect at all. Rulings which favor traditional theistic prayer, practices, and monuments above non-theistic ones appear to violate the First Amendment's separation of church and state. Even though there's a historical tradition of legislative prayer, it shouldn't restrict it to theistic prayer, because that violates the free expression of non-theists (atheists), who are every bit as sincere about their beliefs as theists. Atheists should continue to fight the ruling in court, because the current ruling is dangerous to the free exercise of belief (of secularism). Religion does not belong in politics, because it is dangerous to democracy. I think they can eventually win.
AnonySchmoose
Level 8
Aug 29, 2019
1
@AnonySchmoose I am hoping that you are correct but this country is on a very strange trajectory. I guess it never occurred to me that conservatives could be as dangerous as they have become. Democracy is out the window and theocracy is sliding in - and it is a theocracy that can only tolerate christianity.
@AmelieMatisse Sorry to say, it looks like that to me too ... will have see how it turns out ... at this point am uncertain which way the wind will blow.
Although I haven't read this opinion yet, based on the 7th Circuit decision in Kaufman 419 F. 3rd 78 and Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205 and the new opinion in McCreary County, 125 S.Ct. 2722 holding basically that atheism is a religion for First Amendment reasons, this could be overturned.
lerlo
Level 8
Aug 28, 2019
1
That could be interesting. Wonder what would happen if it got to SCOTUS
@AmelieMatisse well the last two cases I cited are both Supreme Court cases. at some point I'll read this current opinion and see if they somehow got around those two cases but it's hard for them to say one day that atheism is a religion in prison but not in public
@AmelieMatisse Ok, I've read it now and it is indeed scary. They took one of the cases I cited and, while agreeing that atheism is a religion for First Amendment purposes, atheism doesnt believe in a Supreme Being which is historically required for the legislature to get Divine guidance. They are using the "we've always done it argument and going against all kinds of opinions that say this country is not based on god. They even go out of their way to say that Justice Ginsburg would agree with them based on some lower court opinion she wrote. Well it will be interesting to see what she does and I hope they appeal it because it's total b.s. Totally hypocritical to say the country is based on separation of church and state but our legislatures need divine guidance.
@lerlo Honestly I am hoping that as younger people come up through the ranks that this will start to go away because Christianity is on the decline among the young. When even our courts refuse to recognize separation of church and state we are in a serious decline as a free nation.
@AmelieMatisse well it all depends on who the judges are. Way back they said the mentally ill should be sterilized and that was a US Supreme Court opinion. Hopefully but doubtful because of their political leanings, the US Supreme Court will reverse this decision
This is why we need the Church of Satan fighting this battle. Even though they are atheists, it is a recognized religion and they can claim religious liberty--and persecution-- if not allowed to participate. Everywhere needs to have a Church of Satan membership demanding inclusion. If the Bible thumping Christians want to push their beliefs, then every religion should demand the same public podium to push theirs.
Joanne
Level 7
Aug 28, 2019
3
@Joanne my Wiccan friends always felt this way and I sure do understand it.
The framers of our Constitution were well aware if the Thirty Year War that killed 15 million people that was a war by religious proxy between the major European powers in the 16th Century. Similarly was the bloodshed in Britain. The alliance of religion and State turned out to be toxic to both. Sadly, these two powers seek to ally with each other.
YaAtEeh
Level 4
Aug 28, 2019
1
When you mention Britain are you referring to the Civil War or the Reformation.
@Geoffrey51 There was a Peasants Revolt where the citizens rebelled against the powerful alliance of government and religion. See Wikipedia for a brief coverage. Ken Follett's Book "pillars in the Sky" outlines the general tmosphere in a novel form.
@YaAtEeh The Peasants Revolt was not religious though. It was fuelled by resources and the labour market.
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