Thanks for the article on the history of the movement, I'm not a huge history buff but I did find it interesting that all this happened half a century ago, the same year we put a man on the moon, Richard Nixon became president, woodstock, and wal-mart was incorporated.

Keep in mind I am in no way supporting the gay pride parade, however it would be against the founding principals of the US to say that they can't have a parade. Ideally, no one would be having a parade because everyone would have equality of opportunity, the way we treat people with glasses for example.

The problem is one that is fundamental to freedom, a paradox that basically makes it so that freedom can never be real.

Is the right to say "no" to someone (situation doesn't matter, but employment, housing, and ownership would be examples) covered under your right to be free?

if yes, then groups or individuals could be marginalized thus they don't get equal treatment.
if no, then can we say anyone is really free to do what they want with their property?

That's why I think this whole thing is stupid and thoroughly enraging, because we are discussing the wrong things. It's just a bunch of babies through and through.

This is one of those events where you really have to read between the lines. This has nothing to do with "straight pride" its about anti-anti-fascism, or perhaps more accurately anti-(fascist)-anti-fascism. What they are protesting against is the above question being allowed to be "no" for the reasons stated, because they believe it is contrary to egalitarian ideals.

How do you know they were privileged from birth? Also, what evidence is there to suggest that there is still a struggle for basic human rights from LGBTQ persons?

The younger generations haven't had to endure the struggle that the older generations have, at least not on the same scale. people act like being part of a group that was historically repressed somehow entitles you additional rights, but that's not how equality works.

If one group is allowed to have a "gay pride parade" then it is only fair for their to be a "straight pride parade" otherwise things aren't egalitarian.

@Bobby9 democracy eats itself. In a direct democracy, the majority rules, so even just a .001% advantage is everything. That means that being in a minority is basically a political death sentance.

That's why we have a republic, where minorities can get fair representation.

Minorities would lean right if they actually wanted what was best for them. Conversely, majorities should lean democratic because that would be best for them

@NoPlanetB I'm not sure what you think is trolling here, the lack of egalitarian principals or the observation that democracy tends to destroy itself. Neither of these concepts is anything new.

The egalitarian principals we claim to believe in have been effectively mangled beyond recognition. Take for example, a workplace that was 100% white and male. Does that mean this workplace is automatically racist? Not necessarily, unless it is all white male because they are unwilling to hire people of a different race or gender. If everyone is truly equal, then it shouldn't matter what the workplace demographic is.
[reddit.com]
What this means is that if someone gets an advantage, such as through affirmative action, then it isn't really equal and is inherently racist.
[thefederalist.com]

The problems and benefits of democracy can be traced all the way back to the Greeks. When the US was founded, it was most likely not the intention to form a direct democratic government. James Madison referred to this as "A tyranny of the majority" in his federalist papers.
[harvardpolitics.com]
Which is why we aren't a direct democracy, we are a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.
[usconstitution.net]

@Happy_Killbot if you are white, you are privileged from birth, period. In fact, I am so glad in these times to be a white woman, as I have and seen, and lived through, considerable change for the better for some women (lately some serious backsliding, sadly) and have Not unfortunately seen the same opportunities and protections for either people of color or those identifying other than heterosexual keep pace. Only a privileged white dude who has remained blind to his surroundings his entire life would state otherwise.

@AnneWimsey If you need a hint at my "race" I would just like to point out that my face is yellow. I think McIntosh did a real disservice to this country when she used the word "white" in her essay. In my opinion, she should have used the word "Class" or "social status" in fact, if you read through all the points in that essay and you replace "race", "racism", "color", or "minority" with "class", "classism" "ability", or "social status" it is not only perfectly coherent, but applies to everyone equally.

take for example:
"If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white (class ) privilege."

"I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism ( classism ) for their own daily physical protection."

"I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race (social status ) will not work against me."

Having worked with people from all over the country and the world, I can firmly say that race isn't as important as how hard you work. Would you really treat someone worse just because they were a different race if they worked hard? It's not about race, it's about perceived benefit to society. That being said, a rich kid who does everything wrong will still have it better than a poor kid who does everything right. This effect is much more powerful in society than race divide and it's the real enemy here.

Judging by Joe Biden's gaffe I would say he agrees with me.
[vox.com]

@Happy_Killbot So you think gays and people of color have the same treatment, on a daily basis, as I do? On what planet? Smple test scenario you can do for yourself....cause a scene in a store, so that Security comes.....if you are white, and your "combatee" is black, who does Security (regardless of Their color/gender) turn on first? (assuming neither of you are holding any weapons?!)
Yes on paper there might seem sufficient protections....but in tbe Real world, not much.

@AnneWimsey I never said I think LGBTQ persons and people of color have the same treatment, what i'm saying is that we have bigger fish to fry.

Where I am from and everyplace I have ever lived both people would be detained. Obviously, whoever has the highest net worth is going to get the better treatment because after they are both detained, the richer of the two can hire a better lawyer on average.

Also, no one treats LGBTQ people poorly unless their is something actually wrong with them. I have had plenty of friends and co workers who were treated the same both before and after coming out. Sure, people used to be discriminated against, but anymore if someone even so much as suggests that being LGBTQ doesn't mean anything everyone explodes.

This whole parade is a mockery of the idea to have a pride anything parade. Certainly you can agree with me that if this was a "wealth pride parade" that would be unthinkably ridiculous, even though most wealthy people are probably prideful of their undeniably real privilege.

@Happy_Killbot "bgger fish to fry" is one of the saddest, nastiest things I have ever read. When whole classes of people KNOW they are always going to get the short end f the stick, that their kids have to livee in fear, and struggle with the same things they do, no relief in sight, that society is being deprived in a very real way of what they might have to offer if allowed, because there are "bigger fish to fry"???!!!??? What eclipses the debasement of HUMAN BEINGS for you? The stock market? I cannot even begin to comment on your statement that "nobody treats LGBTQ" poory", you are an oblivious ostrich, at best.

@AnneWimsey Times have changed. People treat LGBTQ persons with equity and respect. In fact, someone who is LGBTQ is more readily accepted in society than someone who is right-wing. The struggle is over, but for some reason people aren't willing to accept that.

[theatlantic.com]

While you are focusing on LGBTQ rights, people are dying left and right from cancer and cardiovascular disease. The UN treats the whole of Africa like shit and the planet's ecology is collapsing in our hands.

@Happy_Killbot and I know 2 people who were fired, in the last 18 months, because of their sexual orientatio, and baldly told so. (both in stable relationships, so Not for using the workplace for dating.) They should have sued (a Monumental committment of time, energy, & stress) but just walked away....not exactly "being treated with ...respect", was it? "The struggle is over"??!!?? On what planet, sweetie?

@AnneWimsey Give me their contact info. I would like to speak to them. Assuming they are in Connecticut same as you, that is very illegal and if they didn't sue I have to assume that they were fired for reasons other than being LGBTQ persons or you are bluffing.

[hayberlawfirm.com]

@Happy_Killbot I asked/urged them to sue...do you realize the outcome would be at least 4-5 years away, they have no money for lawsuits (just like most of us!) So the first thing would be to try to get a pro bono lawyer, and/or maybe the ACLU? At least another year out of her life. She was Very successful (rated #1) on her phone sales position, (absolutely lovely voice, and very smart!) then higher ups decided to put her on the road to the better customers. Her appearance is quite "butch"...buzz-cut hair, for example. ....when they fired her, they told her she was "upsetting" to some of the accounts. No witnesses, of course, just her & 2 company guys. And her sales record was Still stellar. The second gal had a 2nd job as a karaoke DJ, she had a following, the restaurant was moribund. Soon she had it packed to capacity (only!) on Thursday Karaoke Nite. The owner told her she was "bringing in an undesirable element".... normally dressed (mostly) women, but some holding hands, I witnessed quiet behavior & lots of happy singing......only. (And as a straight woman, one of many thereplus straight guys) just acceptance, nobody feeling weird....s ill angers just want to sing! The restaurant, shortly after she left, went up for sale...still not sold, I hear he is filing for bankruptcy..

@AnneWimsey Well, if you try to do it like that it could take years. What you really want to do is never take it to court and just have a cash settlement without getting the courts involved. Basically you threaten to sue, and the organization you are suing will give you an allotment to cover damages once you agree to drop the case. Remember, the trial will be expensive for those getting sued too.

Unfortunately, in investigating this I discovered that you only have 180 days to send a letter to the EEOC ( Equal Opportunity Commission ) so if this was a while ago, it's probably to late to take action now.

All that being said, I don't think there is enough evidence to claim that these were wrongful terminations based on your story. Unless you also worked as a manager at the sales company or owned the restaurant and actually had physical first hand access to the sales records I can't just trust your word, because I am getting this information 3rd hand at best ( manager > employee > you > me )

@Happy_Killbot How about (both signatures, hers & the managers) written glowing quarterly evaluations showing her the tiop salesperson since day 1?
SUING: Too expensive, t8me-s7ckand a bankrupt restaurant towner will not have any money anyway. Very easy to say "sue"...if we all live in your rosy little "we have no problems" world, why even suggest it, even if they had unlimited time, globs of money, and a business with tons of cash reserves.....do you even hear yourself?

@AnneWimsey so... are you going to show me the reports or just claim they exist? Until I see the evidence I have to assume it's made up because that's what being agnostic means.

Also, do you realize how self defeating your argument is right?

First you say "we need to fight for LGBTQ rights"

Then you give me an example of not fighting for LGBTQ rights.

I can't help those that don't want help.

Think about it this way: If firing/not hiring just because of gender or gender identity was illegal everywhere, ( and it is in Connecticut, for a fact ) and you friends got fired for being who they are, and they still didn't seek justice then their was no crime as far as the law is concerned.

Crimes left unreported don't get justice!

This kind of thinking is why straight pride parades exist. Someone screams: "I'm oppressed" someone else looks around and says: "you used to be but not anymore" the person says "I want to have a parade" the second says "Then I want one too"

That's a severely oversimplified look at how this went down.

@Happy_Killbot when say WE, I mean all of us, because rights denied one are rights denied to all, or are you unaware of the rise of Hitler? Also,pathetic attempt at blaming victims...really?

@AnneWimsey What about rights for pedophiles, necrophiliacs, and bestiality? What about their rights?

If you think that LGBTQ persons should get full rights, then surely you must also support those mentioned above, because rights denied one are rights denied to all.

Also that isn't victim blaming, because I'm not saying it's their fault I'm saying its too late to do anything about it because that's the truth based on the legal situation.

@Happy_Killbot consenting adults, the Golden Rule, etc...none of which apply to your sad, sick "examples"......pedophilia??!! unless you think we need religion to regulate conduct? And rights denied one person, for whatever "good" reason, are rights in jeopardy for all (except see my first sentence.....)

@AnneWimsey Pedophiles have been trying to gain equal establishment with the LGBTQ community for years, and if you need an example of a group that is actually oppressed, look no further.

Also, the rights being in jeopardy is the exact reason groups like "Super Happy fun America" exist, because what about the right to chose who you want to hire? If I told you you had to hire, work with, and treat pedophiles as equal, would you really?

I've already excepted that LGBTQ persons are just fine, and honestly I think most in the group have too. They just don't want to be forced to have to hire people if they don't want to.

@Happy_Killbot"pedophiles accepted within the LGBT community"???! WTH are you talking about??? Cite something,anything.....I assure you, after centuries of people confusing homosexuality (consenting adults, nobody's business)with pedophilia (predators of chikdren) you are completely delusional in making that statement! Your dragging in this horrible, nasty, non-sequiter convinces me you have some ulterior, nasty motive for your stance.....either to smear honest homosexuals with a tainted brush, or... predators who target children are just peachy-keen with you? I am totally disgusted y you! Bu-bye!