No brainer.

Are you somehow implying that only hot women are okay with being objectified? And what you'd consider unattractive women are the only ones that could possibly be against objectification? why? some warped jealousy theory??

@demifeministgal No that is not what I am implying, try reading what I actually said and comprehending it, it is not my fault if your educational establishment failed you.

@LenHazell53 Cool deflection bro. I have read what you wrote and there seem to be unspoken implication within which you now seem too cowardly to admit. For all you know, the woman on the left has been objectified... in fact, most women in our lifetimes, since our teen years, are objectified or sexualized by virtue of being "read" as females... but what would a man know of that right? XD Your ignorance is forgiven but rather embarassing at your age.

@demifeministgal I had thought you simply made a mistake, but I was wrong you are just blinkered by your own prejudices and obsession.
As for what I know about it I wrote a whole essay on scopophilic fetishisation vs positive body image a few years ago. I am one of only three men in a family of 15 and have raised daughters of my own.
So on top of everything else you are presumptuous, not very intelligent behaviour for the purposes of leading by example from one espousing equality in intellectual assessment of the sexes.

@LenHazell53 pro tip... not every woman you encounter is your ex... you need to seek some counselling or therapy for your obvious issues since you just assume women that disagree with you have obsessions. yikes

@demifeministgal I am actually an advocate of the empowerment of women world wide and am also for women's right to make their own decisions for example, I believe in a woman's right over her own body as well as a women's right to do what ever they want after all we have gone to long with 50% of our species being unable to contribute. So I am also a man> I also agree with your idea's regarding sex workers.

So is a lingerie model "objectified" or is she working in a profession? How about a male underwear model? How about a model of either gender, appearing fully clothed? How about actors in a sex scene?

The first reaction of most human beings, seeing anyone, is to subconsciously assess their appearance and mating potential. It's hardwired in genetically. That doesn't mean we go around panting over people, but it's there. People in these jobs make a living out of being attractive- so what of it? That doesn't mean we aren't aware of them as having an existence other than that.

It seems to me that objecting on behalf of someone else has another name, and that's called "being a busybody". I thought feminism meant that women could do whatever they want with themselves. (Referring to the feminists in the article here as busybodies, not to you- just to clarify.)

@Paul4747 You do know the two are not mutually exclusive yea? One can be working an objectifying job or in an objectifying industry. I disagree that when we see anyone we analyze their mating potential. I think that only applies to people of the gender we find ourselves attracted to. I do not analyze the mating potential of other women for example and I doubt you do the same for other men.

And whoever told you that lied to you. Feminism does mean mean doing whatever one wants with themselves. Feminism is about the social, economic and political equality among the sexes.
I personally think "choice feminism" is a very lazy shallow version of feminism, but it is the one talked about the most in media, so the one known the best.

"It doesn’t seem to matter what the topic is, people are quick to reframe the issue as one of women’s empowerment and right to choose. This provides a neat diversion from talking about the larger power structures and social norms that restrict women, in many different ways, all around the world.

First of all, the choice arguments are fundamentally flawed because they assume a level of unmitigated freedom for women that simply doesn’t exist. Yes, we make choices, but these are shaped and constrained by the unequal conditions in which we live. It would only make sense to uncritically celebrate choice in a post-patriarchal world.

Second, the idea that more choices automatically equate to more freedom is a falsehood. This is essentially just selling neo-liberalism with a feminist twist. Yes, women can now work or stay at home if they have children, for example, but this “choice” is fairly hollow when child-rearing continues to be constructed as “women’s work”, there is insufficient state support for childcare, and childless women are decried as selfish.

Third, the focus on women’s choices as the be-all and end-all of feminism has resulted in in a perverse kind of victim-blaming and a distraction from the real problems women still face. If you’re not happy with the way things are, don’t blame misogyny and sexism, the pay gap, entrenched gender roles, women’s lack of representation on boards or in parliament, or an epidemic of violence against women. Blame yourself. You obviously made the wrong choice."

[theconversation.com]

@Paul4747 Obsessive compulsive personality disorder aka. control freaks.

@FrayedBear People with OCD do not control others... they have obsessive thoughts and then have compulsions aka actions they take to soothe the thoughts... such as locking a door multiple times or turning off a stove multiple times to ensure it is off.

"Obsessions are recurrent and persistent thoughts, impulses, or images that cause distressing emotions such as anxiety or disgust...Compulsions are repetitive behaviors or mental acts that a person feels driven to perform in response to an obsession. The behaviors are aimed at preventing or reducing distress or a feared situation. In the most severe cases, a constant repetition of rituals may fill the day, making a normal routine impossible. Compounding the anguish these rituals cause is the knowledge that the compulsions are irrational. Although the compulsion may bring some relief to the worry, the obsession returns and the cycle repeats over and over."

[psychiatry.org]

@demifeministgal please give me the correct term then.

@FrayedBear well if you need a term to label the fems I would stick with control freaks. heh

@demifeministgal I once had occasion to ask Google for the psychiatric term for "control freak" and it returned "obsessive compulsive personality disorder" and I have used it ever since!

@FrayedBear google failed you... check out the DSM V if you don't believe me... there are few pdf versions available online

@demifeministgal my enquiry may have been pre DSM V. but agreed Google is not the be all and end all. It did not matter what I said as I was the stranger saying the local was mad - everyone knew but would not agree with a stranger - particularly when a male and proving the error of local judiciary, police and council.

@FrayedBear You used the correct term, she does not know what she is talking about, my first wife was OCD and because things had to be her way or no way at all, projected her wants need and obsession on to everyone else, often violently, being obsessive compulsive means being in charge of your whole environment obsessively, things and people.
You are correct @FrayedBear

@LenHazell53 ooh sweet summer child.... literally OCD is a mental disorder that has an accurate definition.... the fact that you are trying to make inaccurate digs at me now, speaks to how petty you are.... you would literally misinform this user to spite me... how sad.

@LenHazell53 plus I literally posted a psychiatric article explaining it... all you have is your gut feelings about an emotional response you have to a bad ex... shame.... refer to the DSM or the ICD for evidence... [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

@LenHazell53 Thanks for your observation Len and huge commiserations for encountering the dreadful disease directly. I hope that you have managed to recover from the experience.

@LenHazell53 I note that according to her profile @demifeministgal states "I am averse to controlling people or people that do not respect my boundaries." It seems that disagreeing with references that she uses from heavily peer criticized references like DSM V are one of her boundaries. She presumably has done much research into the subject of controlling people and I suggest is very ego sensitive and probably misandrist.
Like everyone she just wants to be loved! I hope that you will, like me, send @demifeministgal your love and wish her health, peace and fulfilment in life. As an intelligent lover said to me when I did give her my love "thank you for the valuable gift, it is a great responsibility that you are leaving me!"

@FrayedBear sure discount scientific evidence/data in preference to your emotional whims and those of Len's as well... if you are not a rational thinker, what are you even doing on the agnostic site... wouldn't you feel more at home in a religious group where conclusions are based on your gut feelings? And I don't need your snarky faux love commentary.... this is what I get from trying to engage logically with cons... every damn time

@LenHazell53 Did you find that getting the last word in was also a trait?

@demifeministgal When I was about 20 I hypothesised that smoking a pack of cigarettes per day living breathing clean fresh air from the Atlantic & North Sea was the equivalent of living in London and not smoking. It took science more than twenty years to agree with me and prove my hypothesis.

@FrayedBear LOL so your ego is so high that you think you have the scientific wisdom of the ages and it is science that needs to catch up with your mind not that your mind needs to wrap its head around scientific findings? Let's see how well that goes if you or a loved one ever get sick and need treatment or diagnosis since clearly you are some bastion of knowledge. XD

@demifeministgal but at least you laughed until the tears flowed.