I think you may be right. It also seems as though it is easier to point to big pharma as the enemy than it is to point to your doc.

I am totally with you there and have always felt that medical care would never have been this expensive if insurance had never been involved. Patients and providers have to take some blame too, though. How many times are tests and treatments ordered based on whether or not they would be covered by insurance?

But, now that we have insurance, how the heck do we get out of it?

@itsmedammit Until we get national health care we won't. Medicare is not the answer. It still involves private insurance companies. I don't use Medicare because by the time I pay Part B and then supplemental insurance I would struggle to make it month to month. Fortunately I have the VA which is really good in this area.

@Sticks48 That is my question for Bernie. Most people I know use a supplemental plan. They cost money.

@itsmedammit And since l didn't get Part B when I became eligible it goes up every year which puts it more out of reach. We live in one of the most ignorant first world countries on this planet. Our government does not care about the people, and way too many of the people who could use help vote against their own best interests by voting for Republicans over and over. This goes beyond stupid. This is stupid squared.

So how have insurance companies caused this?

@1of5 By making a profit on our health. They overcharge for procedures, they deny procedures based on profit margins. No one should be making a profit by denying coverage.

@GreatNani uhm, what? Insurance companies don't set rates for procedures - providers do that - they don't deny or pay based on how much money they'll make - it's clearly stipulated in the policy what they'll pay for and what they wont.

Medical costs being high can be blamed on insurance in only one mannor - by letting medical providers get used to being paid in cash instead of in livestock.

Do you think insurance companies should not make a profit? Most businesses are intended to make money. Most doctors are not willing to work for free, either.

BTW, I think insurance is at the root of the problem in that if medical insurance had never been invented, medical costs would never have skyrocketed.

@1of5 I actually know someone who, I am sure to this day, is still accepting payment in livestock. She lives in an area where there are Mennonites or Amish, or whatever it is that is in dump truck Mighigan. She says she has accepted everything from quilts to livestock in exchange for medical services.

@GreatNani No one should be making a profit. That is the immoral part of this equation. No other modern country has a for profit health care system.

@Sticks48 exactly! Healthcare should not be a profit making activity.

@itsmedammit ask them and I bet they'd rather have gotten paid in cash.

@GreatNani sticks has me blocked so I can't see his comment.

So the people providing healthcare shouldn't be making money?

@1of5 No aspect of health care should be for profit. The minute it is a profit making activity it is not in the best interest of the patient. So insurance companies are not in it to help people they are in it for profit. Profit in and of itself is not a bad thing. Just should not be tied to our healthcare.

@GreatNani doctors, nurses, pharmacists, hospital administrators, receptionists, record keepers, lab techs, and 100's of other professions shouldn't be making money off health care?

Insurance companies are a business, and businesses exist to make money. I'm not thrilled with it either, so what actually is your solution?

@1of5 I was just relaying a humorous anecdote. I'm sure she receives most of her payment from insurance. But, it also illustrates that she, perhaps in the minority, is not in it for the money, so much as she is in it to treat people.

@1of5 Insurance companies should be non profits. I have no issue with nurses and doctors being paid. I have issues with my medical care being decided by an insurance company that is willing to put my health to the side to save a buck.

@Sticks48 How are we going to get doctors to work if they aren't getting big bucks?

@itsmedammit They will still get big bucks and there will be doctors. When I was growing up there was no insurance. I had a hernia operation when I was five and my brother had his tonsils out about that time. My parents were lower middle class, but they managed to pay for it, and the doctors lived in big houses and drove big cars. No one said doctors have to be multi-millionaires. They have to do something. Our system is not sustainable.

@GreatNani all of them? Homeowners insurance, auto insurance too?

Lemme guess, your doctor wants to do a procedure that's unproven or experimental.

@1of5 actually no I am healthy enough. And I am talking health insurance.

@1of5 Insurance companies are unnecessary middlemen. They can be carved out of the system. They are not the only problem, of course, by a long shot - but they are indeed a problem. A single payer system would put them all out of business. Hence the well-funded propaganda machines out there demonizing other less expensive solutions. The finer details of Obamacare weren't written by legislature, they were written by insurance lawyers.

@GreatNani so this denying of coverage is hypothetical.

Fuck.

@Shawno1972 a single payer system would still require someone to distribute the funds - and to coordinate care, which is what insurance companies do.

Look, I'm not saying insurance companies aren't an issue, what I'm saying is the reflex, knee jerk reaction to blaming insurance companies for the problem is wildly uninformed.

@1of5 The administration of funds and care do not have to happen through insurance companies. What a strange notion.

In fact, insurance companies fortunately don't actually manage care most of the time. I shudder to think what life would look like here in the States if they did.

It's not a matter of "blaming insurance companies." It's about replacing an unnecessary function with something more effective and efficient. There's nothing knee-jerk about it. There are health care systems elsewhere in the world that operate fine without the concept of "insurance." So if we are wildly uninformed, do us the favor and enlighten us on the supposed superior wisdom that says insurance is necessary to operate health care. This ought to be good.

I understand they're not going away, by the way. Clearly businesses don't want to go out of business.

@Shawno1972 well I've been married to 2 nurse case managers (yes, I have a type) whose job it is to manage the care of patients insured by thier employers, so I can assure you that yes, they do manage care for patients - very well, in fact.

There has to be a mechanism to pay the people who provide care, which happens to be what insurance companies do and are good at. Let's scrap all that and build it all over to do the exact same thing is, quite frankly, a silly notion and akin to reinventing the wheel just because you don't like the colour of the one you have.

Sure there are other ways to do it, but can you do it without disrupting the entire healthcare industry - resulting in people not getting the care they need? Can you do it in an economically reasonable manor that doesn't crash portions of the economy?

The fact is that there's waste all over the place and focusing the blame on an industry that everyone hates is shortsighted. This is a complex, multidimensional issue that can't be reduced to a simple solution or slogan. It's taken decades to get this fucked up and it's going to take serious effort on all sides to get it back under control.

Good luck with that. I had a cortisone shot but it wasn't very effective, apparently because of the inflammation.

@itsmedammit Mine worked well, 90% of pain is gone. Knee is shot, needs to be replaced but I am going to hold out as long as possible.

@Mark013 Good to hear. Mine lasted only a few days, mostly from the effects of the local anesthetic.

There should be no insurance involved in health care. There should be no advertising for prescription drugs. We are the only "industrial" country on the planet with a "for profit" health care system. That is as immoral as rape or murder. If you don't have the money, you don't get the proper care. You suffer and maybe you die. Sick shit.

I'd like to figure out a way to avoid the spurious claims, but I do think it is appropriate to be able to sue for damages.