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Darwin's doubt, is evolution a theory in crises?

aquaheal 4 Mar 10
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Storm, I definitely want to say I appreciate your feedback. I personally know little about the Cambrian explosion because I have a large inclination it didn't happen, at least not the way evolutionists claim it happened. Do I know what happened? No, I am still trying to figure that out. Am I a creation proponent? sort of. I find it pretty hard to believe that I am the product of random chance but I try to keep my mind open to what actually happened. Do I believe there there is a loving intelligence guiding the universe either directly or indirectly? for the most part yes. Is Jesus God incarnate, I don't totally know but I seriously doubt it. look, if I thought I was still a Christian, I would still be in church. Would I be on a site like this trying to proselytize? maybe, but likely not for long. Is Meyers a Christian? from what I understand, yes. But just because someone is of a religious persuasion doesn't mean that what they say can be utterly dismissed. From what I understand, Newton was a Christian but that doesn't mean we can just dismiss the the theory of gravity because of it.

Storm, you may not realize this but I agree with you on many things. Does Meyers use ID as a battering ram for his religious persuasion? probably, to some extent or another. Youv'e got to remember that Christians are commanded by their leader to proselytize the world. Do I use it as a battering ram? basically yes. I want people to consider the idea that we are not the product of random chance, that their is design in living things or at the very least the appearance of design. I believe even Dawkins is willing to admit that. Does that imply a creator, you bet. Do I believe in a creator? I don't know.

Now does Meyers mean both meanings of materialism when he uses the term? I don't totally know for sure but I doubt it. I think he means it in the philosophical sense. Is he condescending? he seems pretty level headed to me. But if he is condescending in any way, I don't think it would help his cause at all and I think he knows that.

@Storm1752 Can you please give me any websites that outline your solution to the mystery of the Cambrian explosion. I am sure if you know something Dr Meyers missed in his book Darwins Doubt he would be happy to engage you on the subject. He is very open to constructive criticism.

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Evolution does not try to explain the origins of life, but simply how that life develops and evolves over time. So his first premise is fallacious right out of the gate.
'Materislistic world view?' What does THAT really mean? Everybody dislikes materialism, right?
The Cambrian explosion does not disprove evolution in any way. It just indicates there's no fossil record of the soft-bodied organisms which came before, coupled with a quantum shift in global climate patterns.
How or why would a 'god' care about any of this anyway?

This short video seems to sum up meyers position about ID answering the Cambrian explosion problem in a nut shell.

noun: materialism

  1. a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values.
    "they hated the sinful materialism of the wicked city"
  2. PHILOSOPHY
    the doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications.

Weather or not a God cares is a theological question, one I am not sure ID really answers.

[evolution.berkeley.edu]

@aquaheal Yes, so when he uses the word, "materialism," he's being too clever by half.
Sure, it speaks to the atheistic world view (I'm agnostic and not sympathetic to materialistic atheism, of which we have PLENTY on this site).
It also is used in the sense "physical comfort is more important than spiritual values," and I find that obnoxiously condenscending.
This man, and the scientists he so authoritatively cites, knows very little or nothing about the mechanics of this epoch, how and why it unfolded the way it did.
Like all bible-thumpers, he simply uses it as a prop to bash non-Christians, which he views as NON-SPIRITUAL and only interested in material things.
Now I, and people like me (not materialistic atheists, who scoff at anything they can't 'prove'😉, care much more about the mysteries of life than most 'Christians,' who also think they've figured out everything of any importance.
Like atheists, they have shut out of their minds anything which doesn't fit their neatly packaged, prejudged certainty about existence. Which is extremely limited, simplistic, and ridiculously erroneous in many details.
Instead of puzzling in amazement at how the natural world can reach a tipping point and then suddenly explode into it's 'finished,' yet constantly evolving, 'adult' state (like a dragonfly suddenly emerging from it's long larval stage into magnificent adulthood), people like this guy uses it as a battering ram to excorciate anyone who doesn't think exactly like him.
He should get down on his hands and knees and ask for forgiveness not from his fictitious 'god,' but from all the well-meaning people--educated, intelligent, thinking, searching, wondering, 'spiritual'--he slanders.

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[discovery.org]

On the web page I thought this was interesting.

"Despite ID’s publication record, we note parenthetically that recognition in peer-reviewed literature is not an absolute requirement to demonstrate an idea’s scientific merit. Darwin’s own theory of evolution was first published in a book for a general and scientific audience—his Origin of Species—not in a peer-reviewed paper. Nonetheless, ID’s peer-reviewed publication record shows that it deserves— and is receiving—serious consideration by the scientific community."

Oh, serious consideration from WHICH scientific community? You mean the minute percentage of scientists who deny the validity of an almost universally-accepted theory? THAT scientific community?

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There is overwhelming evidence which supports evolution from many biological disciplines. The idea that there is any doubt among scientists about the validity of evolution is laughable and is only an attempt at casting doubt among the general populace.

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No.

skado Level 9 Mar 10, 2020
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I understand he is not well liked by many here, but he does seem to make a point. I wonder if anyone has a good intellectual argument against his position.

The intellectual argument is that it is yet another attempt by 'Christians' to deny any and all scientific discoveries which contradict the Biblical accounts of 'Creation' and anything else.
These are the same people still looking for the ark.
The Great Flood? There MAY have been one, but not the one described in the Bible, in my opinion.
If it DID, happen, it probably occurred much earlier and obviously life itself survived and flourished.

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"Stephen C. Meyer is an American scientist, college professor and author. He is an advocate of the pseudoscientific principle of intelligent design. He helped found the Center for Science and Culture of the Discovery Institute, which is the main organization behind the intelligent design movement."

Nuff said, he is a dickhead

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Maybe I should have posted this in academic.

No you should have checked out what a fuckwit he was before spreading his verbal manure

I'm willing to admit the Cambrian explosion is a bit mysterious, but so is life itself.

Maybe you should have thought twice about proselytizing your Christian propaganda on an agnostic site.

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