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I figured it out. To win the war with religion all we have to do is show religious fanatics that when taking the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist the little round piece of bread isn't really an actual living person. By the miracle of transubstantiation they believe it's Jesus himself.

So It shouldn't be too hard. It's just a round piece of bread! It doesn't move, breathe, talk, eat. It doesn't do shit -- Not a fuckin' thing. After they stare at it a couple of hours I'm sure they'll see the truth.

Aristippus 6 Mar 17

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I'm sure they won't see the truth. I was raised a Catholic. We believed it even without any understanding of the philosophical notions of substance and accident that was used as an intellectual underpinning of the transformation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.


PZ Myers in his collection of essays "The Happy Atheist",devoted a chapter about how upset Catholics were when he and others obtained a consecrated biscuits. Craziness ensued,threats of violence etc.
There are purported stories that when nails were driven into these crackers,blood came out. Witnesses? These are apparently a big deal to the believers.
Now a related story. My father was an altar boy back in Hungary (not his idea),and being a big practical joker managed to get a cockroach into the chalice for the priest to find at mass. He regarded that as one of his better ones.


Thanks for letting me in .. appreciate it


I must be different. The entire time I was a Christian (first a Catholic, and then Baptist), I never once thought of the Eucharist and wine were literally Jesus.

Yeah .. some of the proposed origins of that story get pretty grizzly

The emperor of Rome
Flavian.. apparently made some pretty Grimm jokes..

Fishers of men

Refers to Roman soldiers spearing floating Hebrew corpses out of the water

And yes the Roman soldiers we're not above cannibalism

If it is true and flavian is responsible for the New testament... Once you see the evidence... You cannot unsee that proposal... It is pretty brutal... Honestly it makes a lot of sense...


Only Roman Catholics, some in the Eastern Church and Anglican high church believe in this idea. I agree it's a load of garbage, but most christians agree it's rubbish. It's based on the Aristotelian form/matter ontology.


My religious roommate has a rebuttal :

You are not qualified to solve that problem , you should be working on getting qualified and even then he will still ignore your solution.

Congratulations on taking all credit on that figuring. Some people waste their whole life coming to conclusions worth jumping to.


Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of human sacrifices was never my thing.

Women get mad at me when I try to drink their excess fluids too.

What if the point of those lubricating gushing torrents of horror if I am not allowed to dance over them with my tongue like a vampire ?

In hindsight, this is probably a good reason for me to stay single. My health might be in danger from attempting such acrobatics.


Hahaha! These are the people that believe in immaculate conception, water turning into wine, 600 year old men that are alive, a 3-day-dead-man returning to life rather than decomposing, and all sorts of other fantastical shit they've managed to "logic" away in hopes they'll be good enough to have a family reunion in some paradise in the sky post mortem.

Turning bread into flesh is just all part of the delusion.

The one that really gets me is believing that the Earth is the center or the universe. Even after Copernicus published the Revolution of Orbs and Galileo published drawings of Venus showing phases like the moon. They almost killed him and burned him at the stake but he was too popular.

@Novelty Some believe that Jesus impregnated his Mother with his own self.

Logic that!


@Novelty Oh Guuuuuurl! If you wanna talk incest we could Bible it for days. It was a thing. I think the most disturbing is the incestuous rape that was someone's idea put on parchment. It takes a sick mind to come up with that. shudder

@Novelty If you think about it, the Holy Spirit debauched a teenager. In the story, was Mary really able to say "no?" Perhaps the Immaculate Conception was nothing more than a case of divine rape? Oh for a time machine and a rape kit, and we would find that it was just Joseph going all Harvey Weinstein on his fiancee.

@SeaGreenEyez I'm sure PornHub is to blame for that.

It always got me mad about the Immaculate Conception, as if normal mammalian birth was too dirty.

@Aristippus It wasn't the birth. It was the sex leading to the birth. 🙂

@SeaGreenEyez Good point. The word "Conception" here is synomymous with the word "Fertilization." I guess the ovum was fertilized by some sort of ghost i.e. God. Now I get it.


I believe that in the Protestant denominations the wafer disc (bread) is only representative of the body of Christ ...the wine represents the blood of course, and nobody actually thinks that they are cannibalising the body of Jesus. Do Catholics really believe that they are actually eating the flesh of Christ...I doubt many do, even if that is officially what, by the miracle of substantiation, the church claims it is. I doubt any battles against religion will be won on these grounds...compared to some of the other nonsense that they believe this seems pretty trivial.

I do not know if it is doctrine now, it might have changed, but certainly it was a central tenet of the Catholic mass that the wine and wafer became the body and blood, where the Protestant faith held that it was representative, hence consubstantiation.

@Geoffrey51 I know it was officially what the RC church said taking communion was, but how many really believe it...none of my Catholic friends do.

@Marionville I doubt they even think about it!

@Geoffrey51’s all done ritualistically!

@Geoffrey51 There are 3 views: transubstantiation (Roman Catholic), consubstantiation (Luther, High Anglicans) and symbolic.
Transubstantion: Following Aristotelian concepts of form and matter, the idea is that the bread retains its form as bread (it looks feels, smells and tastes like bread) but at the moment of consecration its matter or substance is changed to the very body of Christ, his flesh.
Consubstantion: Christ is materially present in, over, or around the bread and wine, but the bread and wine remain just that. Nonetheless, as Christ is materially present, this view still sees the bread and wine venerated.
Symbolic: Christ is spiritually present with those eating the bread and wine, and these 'elements' symbolise his body and blood.


That’s just Catholics and you can’t lay that at the door of religion.

Why is it a war? That implies changing one set of ‘correct’ values for another set of ‘correct’ values.

Surely there is enough going on at the moment to not give a shit what anyone else believes!

Compared to some of the other nonsense they believe and the misogyny and pedophilia they commit...this seems almost benign.


When I used to go to Sunday School, one story they often told us was about the skeptic who took a little wine from the communion cup, took it to his lab, and looked at it through a microscope to see if it really changed to blood during the mass. He saw blood cells under the microscope, then was struck blind for two weeks because he doubted God.

Another story I heard was from a Sunday School teacher who spied a piece of bread blessed during the mass (they hand out the leftovers after communion) on the floor, and it momentarily changed into a crying baby.

I thought high school biology quite a few years in younger days. A part of our evolution may give us a clue. If a parent tells a young child, "Don't go swimming in the river, 'cause there're alligators in there and they will eat you up." The rebellious skeptical types didn't live on to reproduce. That's may be why youngsters can be made to believe in Santa Claus. In other words it's in human DNA to believe in nonsense and no matter how hard we try to teach them the truth, they have tremendous defense mechanisms to fight it off.

@Aristippus sounds right! It took me 10 years to free my mind from that bullshit, personally.

@altschmerz I was younger than that. I couldn't handle "He died for our sins." What sins? I said, I'm just a kid. Why would God have to die for me when I didn't do anything. From then on, I used my Sunday School money, hopped on a bus and went to Ebbetts Field. I sat in the breachers of 35 cents and spent the rest of the money on snacks. No bull.


Problem is of course even a majority of catholics don't believe it, if they did the pews would be running with vomit.
However, they choose to play along with the game and pretend they believe it so as not to rock the boat.
People indoctrinated in to religion have no problem simultaneously believing it is perfectly fine to lie through your teeth and still preach the ninth commandment


Yeah, shouldn't be too hard. I'm sure you're the first one to suggest this. Once it's explained to them I'm sure it will all be fine.


I've often suggested that we make them spit it out so they can see it's still a cracker.

The miracle in the spitting up of crackers of the damned is the return of musical whistling.

In these trying times, the return of celebrated music is always welcomed.

Rejoice fellow heathens . 🎉

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