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I figured it out. To win the war with religion all we have to do is show religious fanatics that when taking the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist the little round piece of bread isn't really an actual living person. By the miracle of transubstantiation they believe it's Jesus himself.

So It shouldn't be too hard. It's just a round piece of bread! It doesn't move, breathe, talk, eat. It doesn't do shit -- Not a fuckin' thing. After they stare at it a couple of hours I'm sure they'll see the truth.

Aristippus 6 Mar 17
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I'm sure they won't see the truth. I was raised a Catholic. We believed it even without any understanding of the philosophical notions of substance and accident that was used as an intellectual underpinning of the transformation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

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Hello,
Thanks for letting me in .. appreciate it

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I must be different. The entire time I was a Christian (first a Catholic, and then Baptist), I never once thought of the Eucharist and wine were literally Jesus.

Yeah .. some of the proposed origins of that story get pretty grizzly

The emperor of Rome
Flavian.. apparently made some pretty Grimm jokes..

Fishers of men

Refers to Roman soldiers spearing floating Hebrew corpses out of the water

And yes the Roman soldiers we're not above cannibalism

If it is true and flavian is responsible for the New testament... Once you see the evidence... You cannot unsee that proposal... It is pretty brutal... Honestly it makes a lot of sense...

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Only Roman Catholics, some in the Eastern Church and Anglican high church believe in this idea. I agree it's a load of garbage, but most christians agree it's rubbish. It's based on the Aristotelian form/matter ontology.

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I believe that in the Protestant denominations the wafer disc (bread) is only representative of the body of Christ ...the wine represents the blood of course, and nobody actually thinks that they are cannibalising the body of Jesus. Do Catholics really believe that they are actually eating the flesh of Christ...I doubt many do, even if that is officially what, by the miracle of substantiation, the church claims it is. I doubt any battles against religion will be won on these grounds...compared to some of the other nonsense that they believe this seems pretty trivial.

I do not know if it is doctrine now, it might have changed, but certainly it was a central tenet of the Catholic mass that the wine and wafer became the body and blood, where the Protestant faith held that it was representative, hence consubstantiation.

@Geoffrey51 I know it was officially what the RC church said taking communion was, but how many really believe it...none of my Catholic friends do.

@Marionville I doubt they even think about it!

@Geoffrey51 True...it’s all done ritualistically!

@Geoffrey51 There are 3 views: transubstantiation (Roman Catholic), consubstantiation (Luther, High Anglicans) and symbolic.
Transubstantion: Following Aristotelian concepts of form and matter, the idea is that the bread retains its form as bread (it looks feels, smells and tastes like bread) but at the moment of consecration its matter or substance is changed to the very body of Christ, his flesh.
Consubstantion: Christ is materially present in, over, or around the bread and wine, but the bread and wine remain just that. Nonetheless, as Christ is materially present, this view still sees the bread and wine venerated.
Symbolic: Christ is spiritually present with those eating the bread and wine, and these 'elements' symbolise his body and blood.

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That’s just Catholics and you can’t lay that at the door of religion.

Why is it a war? That implies changing one set of ‘correct’ values for another set of ‘correct’ values.

Surely there is enough going on at the moment to not give a shit what anyone else believes!

Compared to some of the other nonsense they believe and the misogyny and pedophilia they commit...this seems almost benign.

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Problem is of course even a majority of catholics don't believe it, if they did the pews would be running with vomit.
However, they choose to play along with the game and pretend they believe it so as not to rock the boat.
People indoctrinated in to religion have no problem simultaneously believing it is perfectly fine to lie through your teeth and still preach the ninth commandment

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I've often suggested that we make them spit it out so they can see it's still a cracker.

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