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Explain "angry atheists" to me. Some have said that they are angry at having been lied to/taught things that are not true. Is there a similarity between the steps of the grieving process (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance) and the process of converting to a secular, science-informed viewpoint.

OrangeJuice 6 Apr 1
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22 comments

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9

I don't know how it works for everyone, but that was never my experience.
Realizing and embracing my atheism was wonderful.
What makes me "angry" are the believers forcing their beliefs on everyone else.
That straight-up pisses me off.
I think, in some cases, what gets perceived as "atheist anger", is actually
the pushback against being told how to live. The believers have been having their
way for so long, they perceive anyone having the temerity to question them as
discrimination. Hence, their persecution complex.

yeah the in your face stuff is all that bothers me. It would bother me if someone was trying to convince me to change my opinion on a number of other topics too

@btroje Hell, with most of them, no one even has to get in their face for them to claim they're being discriminated against. Although, using their own tactics on them seems to go completely over their heads.

6

The realization that I am atheist was liberating. Nothing there to grieve or be angry about.

The source of my anger is all about seeing the different types of damage that religion has done and continues to do, while simultaneously feigning righteousness. The manipulation of the indoctrinated. The failure of the U.S. to maintain the separation of church and state. The denial of knowledge and the discouragement of the quest for knowledge. The various ways that religion slows the progress of humanity toward reaching our potential -- whatever that might mean.

That is what my anger toward religion looks like.

3

The path has been easier for me than for many because before recently becoming Atheist, I was a long time Agnostic who never wasted too much time with religion. So I can understand anger about having expended so many years on nonsense. And we all are continually fighting against the tide of those trying to shove such ideas back down our throats. And though I would never want to take back the many hours I spent studying the various arguments that led to my acquiring all the knowledge I am now armed with that allowed me to transition from Agnosticism to Atheism, I do sometimes resent that all of it was even necessary in the first place.

3

Well, I think we live in an age of anger, and that's what has happened to discourse in the world. Atheists are angry. We want to take on religions. Christians are angry. (Watch this crazy Fox News for a while). The western world is changing and becoming more secular, inexorably, and they're angry. Conservatives are angry at progressives. Progressives ( like me ) are angry at reactionary conservatives. Affluent classes are angry at any suggestion that anyone take their wealth. Underclasses are angry at the disparity of wealth now and will follow anything or anyone that seems to connect with their angst. (Hello Trump supporters). We live in an age of incomprehensible change, and that creates fear which translates into anger. Atheist anger is just part of that wider trend of challenging old patterns of thinking. The old ideologies are breaking down, and old patterns of thinking are being challenged. Whether you think this anger is good or bad just depends which side you are on.

Nailed it.

2

I was 17, a junior at St. Joseph's Prep in Philly, whenthe Jesuits mad a fatal mistake. Instead of shoving "God's Word" down my throat with a feeding tube, as had been done for 11 years, they said, "This is what we believe. What do you think?"
Well, the notion that we were allowed to THINK about any of this was revelatory. And once I applied rational thought to this absurd back-story, God vanished in a puff of logic.
I knew that my abandonment of Christian mythology would not be taken well by my Irish Catholic parents. But nothing could have prepared me for my mother's response. She said that she hoped that in the course of my life, a tragedy would befall me that would bring me back to Christ.
What might that look like? Cancer? The death of my child? It was in that moment that my view of religion went from mocking an obvious, ludicrous fairy tale, to an understanding of the pernicious and malicious manipulation of the minds and hearts of the flock. My mother, a good and kind and loving woman, would see her son suffer, or her grandchild die, if that's what it took to bring me back to God.
So yes, I suppose I am angry at religion. From the countless deaths brought about in whatever name you've given your god, to the hurtful words of a deluded mother, I join with John Lennon, and imagine there's no religion.

Ludo Level 7 Apr 2, 2018

Bravo

2

I'm not angry for being raised a Catholic. I'm actually grateful. It gave me an insiders understanding of religion that I wouldn't have otherwise, especially of the comfort that traditions and repitive prayers bring to many. After I'd left religion behind, I read the bible, the gnostic ghospels, and other texts that just confirmed what I already knew. That religion is a political beast used to brainwash and control the masses.

2

I get angry when I see the damage or terrible hypocracy that religion bring about. Most of the time I treat religion as silly nonsense not worthy of any respect beyond that of common fairy tales. But when I see the bullshit that religion does to people and society as a whole, I have every right to be upset when there is clear and present damage due to its influence.

2

I agree with both comments. I had a relatively short period where I was very angry. One of the reasons was that I was a minister for twenty plus years and I felt angry that I had wasted my life on something that is meaningless, that I had given so much and had sacrificed my family on the altar of ministry and yet I didn't receive the benefits of that. I guess I was going to experience them in the next life haha.

What I am angry with these days is the hypocrisy, the fact that people consider Christians to be more moral than atheists even though the statistics show otherwise, the history of the church and all the damage it has done to humanity and the planet, and the deception that continues by church leadership.

1

I am angry at the Catholic Church for the damage it did to me, to my mom, to many defenseless children, and to millions of others over the centuries. However, that is not tied to my concluding that there is no evidence for a god.

1

To me, it's the theists' way of saying "outspoken" atheists. Theist rather have "don't ask, don't tell" so we don't threaten their faith.

Geoff Level 5 Apr 2, 2018
1

So many have been seriously hurt by religious beliefs being shoved on them since childhood. For one thing it has prevented them from evolving their own identity and being "me" is fundamental to living. Those who are gay or different in any way are particularly vulnerable. The point is religion has hurt them and overcoming this was never easy. Most have had to pay a heavy price for this freedom.

1

That could mean different things to different atheists of course. I get upset when I think about all those beautiful Sunday mornings and often nights as a kid..and prayer nights on Wednesdays..that I wanted to be outside instead tossing a ball..or sitting at home playing guitar instead of being stuck inside that Baptists church. If others get comfort from having an invisible friend that protects them and listens to them..saves them from their sins..it's fine with me. I don't get angry. Whatever works to help them get through it all.

Thanks for that. I’ll look for her book

1

People have a right to choose to be deluded. What makes me angry is how religious leaders knowingly lie to and use people to enhance their power and wealth, and how they try to impose their dogma on others.

1

For everyone there are processes.

0

As a recovering catholic, yup...I was pissed off.

Emme Level 7 Apr 3, 2018
0

I don’t think the angry atheists “convert” to a secular science informed viewpoint that you referenced. Having some indignation for the wrongs perpetrated by religion and viewing the world from a science and secular informed rationale are not mutually exclusive. Do you?

What other alternatives are there? You can stay in or try to reform the religion or walk away from it. Perhaps I misunderstood your question

@OtisJesser Thanks for your response. I think you misunderstood. My point was that you can be both indignant regarding some religious practices and outcomes AND have a scientific and secular viewpoint ( not shouting the “and”, just emphasizing the 2 positions) In any case, I see your point about the grieving process and for me, the stages of grieving and being angry about injustices in religion are something totally different. Also, for me, staying in the religion and trying to change it does not seem possible if you mean attend and participate while at the same time openly holding an atheistic viewpoint. Maybe it could work for someone else. See the video below by Greta Christina. I learned a lot from that one. All the best.

@Markus sure that makes sense. I have trouble understanding the anger and indignation because for me, personally, it doesn't seem like a useful emotion/response. A psychologist doesn't get angry at his patients for their mental illness. But I can definitely see the world of hurt and confusion religion has caused. Just wondering if the angry reaction is a step toward something else. I'll check out the video below. 🙂

@OtisJesser I agree. On a personal/one on one basis, communicating in a sarcastic or indignant manner will not produce a good outcome.

0

I grew up "Christian" but it was never really a big deal. It was just the cultural norm. I occasionally went to Sunday school at the Nazarine Church but my parents never did. Because it was never that important in our home I don't feel any of the anger that I might have felt if I had been subject to opressive dogma. I do think that our public school system is so deficient that we should all be a bit pissed off. I know teachers get indignant that they aren't held in higher esteem, but most of them aren't really that great and don't care that much about students.

0

Hell yes. 12 years of Catholic school. I realized In undergrad how sorely my math and science education had been compromised in favor of mythical BS. That’s why I went into music and later law. At least I could still read.

0

I'm not sure about the stages of grief. It's likely true for some. I think there are many people that have become bitter and cynical about religion because they feel they have essentially been lied to all their lives.

0

Greta Christina has written a book on a hundred reasons why she, as an atheist, gets angry. Here's a flavor of that in a presentation she gave:

0

Good insightful question.

0

Probably the newer atheists are more angry. I've noticed with 2 people on here, that they are new. They have anger at religions. I did too, a year ago.

@irascible Huh?

@irascible Oh, thanks. It's funny now. More of a joke.

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