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Has anyone read Richard Carrier's book about the Historicity of Jesus and the weakness of the evidence, or really, the non-existence of evidence?

eric788 5 Apr 15

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Great book.


Does people really need a book to tell them how ridiculous is to believe that an entity -which conveniently looks like a human- jumps from cloud to cloud, 24 x 7, and watches everything we do? Please, we are reaching the first quarter of the XXI century and the stupidity has to go....Mankind needs to jump out of this ignorance.

Considering the billions of people who follow the Middle Eastern triumvirate, I'd say yes, yes we do. We need intelligent, detailed, historically accurate refutations of religion.

@eric788 And do you think that "intelligent, detailed, historically accurate refutation of religion" will be achieved by a society (world society) that's quite ignorant?

Well, it sure won't happen if no one tries, if no one ever points out the absurdities. And, the world is becoming more and more secular. And we're seeing the backlash from the cultural/religious conservatives. I think that people like Hitchens, Dawkins, Sam Harris, Richard Carrier, have had an effect in bringing people around to rationality. It's a slow process for sure but would you argue that people are more religious now than, say, 50 years ago?

@eric788 Yes, eventually, mankind will be enlightened the 40 century or so.


Seems there were more than one.

Coldo Level 8 Apr 16, 2018

I have! Apart from Bayes theorom, which is more for scholars, it is a facinating read/Listen. I've also done Sense and Goodness without God, and his collection of papers Hitler, Homer, Bible, Christ. All very good.




I think it's interesting how Christians, believe the New Testament is the word of god. The New Testament was written 100 years after yeshuas' supposed crucifixion, and it took another 325 years to turn it into a book. To top this off, if Jesus actually existed, he was almost certainly illiterate. He never wrote a single thing down even according to the entirely speculative rabbinical tradition. Many of the historical figures that we know existed, we know actually existed because they, themselves, wrote things down. Instead, Jesus had to rely on other people to write his story. This same idea applies to the Old Testament also.

In Eusebius' book "The History of the Church" 4th century, there is a copy of a letter Jesus supposedly wrote.

"Supposedly"? Never heard of it. I study the dynamics of debate, and the origin debate is by far one of my favorites.

I have to get this book.


I have in on my bed board but haven't gotten myself through it. For me it's pretty deep. I appreciate his work.

gearl Level 7 Apr 16, 2018

I have the hard copy for reference, but prefer the Audible version where Carrier does the reading.


A scholar on the subject.

Coldo Level 8 Apr 16, 2018

However Bart Erhman does believe in the historical character of Jesus


Yes I have all his books. I like his work a lot. If you haven't done so I recommend that you watch his presentations and debates on YouTube. There are many. He's very entertaining, and makes the subject interesting to watchers.


No, not his book, but I read his blog.


No, but I've heard about it. Weird.


No, but I have watched some of his talks on youtube. A lot of what he has to say seems reasonable enough to me. Though he has ardent opponents, even in the atheist scholar community.
I'm not sure it matters, one way or the other, whether a man really existed. I view Jesus kind of the same way as I do King Arthur. It's possible there was a person. Or maybe multiple persons. Either way, the myths that rose up are still myths.

EB80 Level 5 Apr 16, 2018

No, not really. But the idea of the non-existence of Jesus has been thrown about for some time. There is indeed no verifiable evidence that he ever existed.


No, but have watched him on YouTube.


No, but his assertion doesn't surprise me. I've never believed Jesus ever existed.

What gets me is how i fell for it. I just accepted it was true. Went along with the rest of the people never asking questions. Believing preachers were talking to Jesus. It's funny how people would take a bullet in the name of Jesus just like Muslims would take one for thier god.

@BucketlistBob I completely understand, Bob. I've seen it my whole life. The great thing is that you came back to your default, which we're all born with, and consciously decided to use your critical thinking skills again to acknowledge what a complete load of garbage "belief" truly is.

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