Some fundamentalists have actually thought this through and believe without irony that they are that depraved (because everyone is). Their operant conditioning in things like the doctrine of utter depravity is such that they really believe they would eventually devolve to an animal-like state of selfishness and sociopathy if it weren't for the indwelling spirit of god. The way I experienced this (to the extent I thought about it) was that this would happen quite in spite of myself or the "better angels of my nature".

However ... they also don't think this belief is flimsy or unreal or made up. They are also conditioned to believe god actually dwells within them and is creating a new nature that loves good, god and other people ... despite all evidence to the contrary. As such they are not only okay with these memes -- they are smug and self-assured about them.

So Amanda is right, but she's only going to make every hundredth fundie stop and think about this and most of those won't think very long or hard. The rest, the ones with "fundashields of determined ignorance" in good working order -- it will just bounce off of. Such is the power of operant conditioning, social reinforcement, and constant anti-intellectual, anti critical thinking propaganda.

Morality, compassion, empathy etc. predates any and all religions. Religions adopted the morals then spread the messages that eventually became a vehicle of control.

My response to this statement is, Would you feel more comfortable with someone whom believes they will be held accountable for their actions in thier one and only life that commits murder, or someone who believes they will be "just" forgiven and be rewared with Heaven?