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I recently attended a memorial service also attended by the children and grandchildren of the decedent, three sisters from each generation, all but one dressed in black, becomingly. Two groups of three sisters each, an unrelated man glad to see them—what is this, Chekhov meets Shakespeare? Probably not. I'm not especially big on omens, good or bad. Even if Derrida was right that ours is an enchanted culture.

Speaking of which—Middle Eastern and Southern European mythology and thought are considered foundational to our culture. Conversely, the influences of Celtic and Welsh mythology, not to mention Norse and Germanic, have survived more in the realms of fantasy—see Wagner, Tolkien and his heirs, Plant and Page, the Arthurian tales—than in mainstream religion or philosophy. Did it take a sort of anointing by cultures foreign, or peripheral, to Europe for the European imagination to reach its maturity, or, as may be, its adolescence? Why should this be? I'm not complaining about it, just wondering.

AlanCliffe 6 Apr 17

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Well here's a semblance of the old agnostic. com. that i thought had died,. Intelligent people talking intelligently about a subject i don't have the foundation to appreciate. Nevertheless, the voices enchant me and the near total absence of such conversation in the outside world leaves me hungry for more. It reminds me of that famous HP Lovecraft story about an eons old troglodyte outcast, making his way slowly up the slimy walls of his cave home, toward a sliver of the light of day, and finally emerging into the glorious beauty of a blue sky and an open meadow. He hears the voices of assembled reasonable quality minds coming from a farmhouse at the bottom of the hilltop he's emerged from. He find himself beyond his own control, running to that house, he bursts through the door, he is met with a chorus of screams of horror. He runs out the door, back up the hill, back into his darkness.

I ask you, as that outcast, as that self conscious monster who has no choice but to serve the truth, who has asked you this same question many times and been met each and every time with a stony wall of silence ......... why can't you devote a few moments of intelligent dialog to the racial question of the Orwellian climate of alleged "white entitlement" and a thousand other harbingers of black "new thought". And,. why won't you deal with the massive front and center evidence of black criminality and social disintegration , and the amazing total silence about and disappearance of the world famous 1965 MOYNIHAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMISSION REPORT that thoroughly documented it? Isn't all that at the least a contributing factor to this "brave new world" of "black oppression" propaganda that bids to saturate the media for eternity, or till our material profligacy put an end to our species reign of terror? Please talk about the 800 pound gorrilla.

Enough already with middle eastern and southernn european mythology.



The Mediterranean countries we're smart enough to adopt the traditional northern European celebrations and tailor them to their mythology.

In addition they offered their idyllic life after death promises which I don't think any of the northern European mythologies offered. Eternal life is a hard thing to outdo.



The Mediterranean countries we're smart enough to adopt the traditional northern European celebrations and tailor them to their mythology.


Maybe there is a lot of truth in that. But there is a lot of evidence and history which indicates that it was, in the main, much more brutally simple than that. The South European cultures especially the Roman and Greek simply had a cultural history of colonization, knew how to do it well, and when the Roman Empire failed as a military power, the churches, both Greek and Roman, simply carried on with the cultural imperialism. They could do that in part because of the prestige of the former empire, was seen as both a military and national ideal, and also as a prize to be won, by many they wished to colonize. Which made the conquest easy, since the ruling classes were all too willing to be colonized, and then to force their adopted culture on to the much more reluctant, and slower to uptake, people. Especially since the Southern cultures still enjoyed the better climate, plus access to the trading routes of the Mediterranean sea etc.. And many think that you win the cultural wars, by adopting the most prestigious culture as well as its trade for yourself, often the reverse of a military conquest.

So that the mythology of the Norse, Germanic and Slavic, were simply the ones who lost the culture wars and got colonized, by the imperial churches. In part because the leaders of the of those lands were willing to sell out their gods for silks, wines, some fancy titles and paintings.

Legitimation through appropriation of historic authority. Weak claim to rule but it works. A claim currently being asserted by Putin.

As usual, your posts answer the question to my satisfaction.


I'm not sure but I can check into it.

I'll check back with you because this is either waaaay above my pay grade or I need to re-read it, cause I'm confused AF.🤔

I desperately want to discuss their clothing choices/funeral attire, as times have changed and depending on the dead person, black isn't the staple it once was. (But I think I'd best not do that.) 😁

@SeaGreenEyez The connection between my first paragraph and my second is probably a little whimsical; sorry for any confusion that's caused. I was thinking of the three "weird sisters," or Three Witches, at the beginning of MacBeth, who rightly predict the title character's future, including his downfall. Which made me think of enchantment, hence my thoughts on what sorts of mythology have resonated in the West. The actual women at the service aren't witchy at all, except in the sense of "Oh, you look bewitching tonight." And, I don't know, the five who wore black might have done so simply because they look good in it.

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