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Most folks build their worldview by building up from their own experiences,
what happens to them personally, how they were brought up by their parents,
what education they received. Eventually they come to a static point where
their views consolidate around this worldview that is a summation of mostly
all of their personal experiences. They are never able to move beyond that.

Other folks at some point in their lives, come to a realization that their own
experiences are not enough to truly give them a better worldview . . . . To
improve and expand their worldview, they have to be able to some degree, to
step outside of themselves and their own ego, and develop at least some
ability to understand what is outside of the confines of their own motivations,
ego and biased views, and explore possible views that are foreign to any of
their own ideas.

When this happens, and they start to consider for example, the views of

people who through no fault of their own were mentally destroyed by war,
rape, destruction of their homes or even their families, struck down by
disease, they start to consider the possibility that there is no loving god
after all, for no decent god would unjustly punish these people.
. In fact, there is a great beauty of humanity that can develop a compassion
for those who are struck down by events in their lives, all for no reason
whatsoever . . . . But it does not arise from the belief in some god that
claims to be loving, but fails when you look at the fruits of its "labor" . . . . It arises from a human who is able to for once, look beyond their own
motivations, ego and biased views, and see the child who is struck
down by cancer before reaching teenager, the victim of war in another
country, brought on by worthless cowardly politicians who would never
fight on the front lines, the homeless person whose life was destroyed
by financial upheaval created by their government, crooks, or the like.

 As a polyglot, it is amazing just how much more I see because I have 

taken the time to learn other languages, read about things that very few
people who are monolingual ever notice, widen my worldview beyond
anything I have ever imagined. When you examine enough other cultures
and nations, you develop a reluctance against jumping to conclusions
about them based on your own limited world view.

It is naïve, and sometimes destructive to do so.

Archeus_Lore 7 Jan 14

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the belief that the people, customs, and traditions of your own race or country are better than those of other races or countries:
Anthropologists and folklorists struggle to overcome ethnocentrism.
Ethnocentrism often leads to distrust of people from other cultures.

-from the Cambridge English

Traveling helps one see outside their little sphere and become more accepting as well. By this I don't mean cruise ship type of tourism, when one is the outsider the worldview is changed.

MizJ Level 8 Jan 14, 2023

"Ethnocentrism" is a very big part of the equation!

@Archeus_Lore There are many forms of "us versus them", none of them leads in the direction of harmony.


Okay, but what happens to Christians happens to everybody else, too. We all have a "belief system " whether you're s Christian, atheist, whatever

Agnosticism is not a belief system, it is a lack of belief systems.

@Archeus_Lore Yeah. I'm agnostic too and that's as close as you can get, but still.. even that is in a way a belief system. If you're ALIVE you have have SOME KIND of beliefs, right? Even if it's a belief in not having beliefs!

@Storm1752 It is well documented that humans are hard-wired to believe in something, religion, politics, principles, ideas.... the list goes on.

@Ryo1 From our beliefs, whatever they may be, we derive our notion or sense of an identity which may become rigid with the passage time or become flexible and open to new information. I recall the words of Bertrand Russell: "history is replete with men and women who have gone to their deaths for their beliefs, there is nothing new in this and it will continue into the foreseeable future.

"Only fools and fanatics are certain, the wise are always full of doubts." Bertrand Russell.

@Ryo1 An interesting aside, Aldous Huxley, in the book Island, considered the idea that each person has their own "island" of refuge that they create in their mind, something that gives them shelter and comfort from the outside world. After reading it, I think I became somewhat less attached these particular islands, and looked outside of them more. Also, I eventually came to the conclusion, with the help of Huxley, that there can exist no utopia, for utopias are just as subject to change as everything else, time eventually changes everything, so a true utopia could never exist.

The following is an AI summary of the book Island:

Can you give me a philosophical outline of Aldous Huxley's book "Island"?

"Island" is a novel by Aldous Huxley that describes a utopia located on an island in the Indian Ocean. The society on the island is based on a philosophy of balance and harmony, and the people there live in a state of contentment and fulfillment. The novel explores themes of individual freedom, the dangers of technology and over-reliance on it, and the importance of spiritual and emotional well-being. Huxley also critiques the idea of a perfect society and the dangers of blindly following a leader or ideology. Ultimately, the novel suggests that true happiness and fulfillment can only be found through a balance of physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, and that true freedom comes from being able to think and act independently.

Can you elaborate on the significance of Huxley's use of the title Island?
In "Island", the title Island refers to the physical location of the utopia where the story takes place, but it also has a deeper symbolic significance. The island is isolated from the rest of the world and serves as a microcosm, or a small representation of the larger society. It represents a sanctuary, a place of refuge, where the people of the island can escape the problems and issues of the outside world.

The title Island also serves as a metaphor for the idea of a perfect society, as it suggests that a utopia can be found in isolation, separate from the rest of the world. However, as the story unfolds, it becomes clear that the island is not truly an island, but a part of the world, and the issues that plague the outside world still exist on the island, just in a different form.

Additionally, the title Island also implies the concept of "insularity" which is a state of being isolated, both physically and mentally, from the rest of the world. The island community is isolated and closed off, with very little communication or contact with the outside world. This insularity is problematic as it limits the society's ability to learn, grow and adapt to the changing world.

Overall, the title "Island" is used by Huxley as a tool to symbolize the idea of a perfect society, but also to challenge this idea by showing that true happiness and fulfillment can only be found through a balance of physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, and that true freedom comes from being able to think and act independently.

@Archeus_Lore I have to admit that I have never read any of the works of Aldous Huxley although I once looked at copy of Brave New World in a second-hand bookshop in London.

The only isolated island that I know of that is cut off from the rest of the world is the Sentinel Islands. We are gregarious creatures, social beings. It seems to me that there needs to be a balance between being alone and being with other people. Likewise, there has to be a balance between mental and physical activities as expressed in the Latin phrase Mens sana in corpore sano.

One hundred years ago a sixty year old man was ten times more active than the average twenty year old man is today. Admittedly, one hundred years ago people did not have the comforts and level of technology that we enjoy today which has also brought about a drop in physical activities.

In the modern societies in which we live it could be said that we are relatively independent or interdependent, nobody is completely independent for the simple reason that we rely on many people for the provision of a variety of services.

In terms of our bodies, we do not beat our hearts, we do not breathe, we do not operate the rods and cones in our eyes and we do not digest our food. Fortunately, the aforementioned is all regulated by the autonomic nervous system; if we had to manage those processes we would probably perish. So, as far as life is concerned most of the work is carried out for us, it just requires a degree of maintenance.

@Archeus_Lore, @Ryo1 Theoretically, an agnostic is not wedded to beliefs of any kind, so has no islands. For instance, are you willing to change you OPINION there is, or is not, such a thing as God? Are you willing to change a given OPINION if new facts come to one's attention? If you're liberal or conservative about a given issue, event, or person, or overall viewpoint, do you have a "litmus test," or do you REALLY have an open mind? But we all have our "sacred cows..."
That doesn't mean one stops being an agnostic. If Jesus Christ knocked on my door, or I was presented with absolute proof that Jews were responsible for killing him, I'd be forced to change my point of view. Some liberals wouldn't. For now I'll continue to think he never existed, in human form, anyway.

@ASTRALMAX Well said, mate. If we are all truly independent, physically and mentally, there would be no such thing as society.

@Storm1752 I'd need more than just some clown knocking on my door and saying he was Geezus, and the first thing out of my mouth that would come out after seeing some guy that pretended to be Geezus by dressing the fake Caucasian part would probably be "Geezus fucking Christ!" . . . . Maybe if he could produce a miracle or two, like changing the course of the moon's path, or farting out an elephant, I might buy the story!

@Archeus_Lore He'll probably come in an inter-dimensional craft with lots of "miraculous" gadgets.
I'm reading a lot about it, and I'm convinced the Romans made him up. For a LOT of reasons.
But I'm also reading the moon is hollow, and was moved into it's present orbit by a race of aliens, whose civilization was 2.3 billion years old!
I believe that too, for a lot of defensible reasons. So, I don't know why anyone would listen to me!

@Ryo1 Of COURSE we believe in something, try NOT believing something. That's the same thing as not thinking.

@Storm1752 That should include you trying not to believe in yourself. See what consequences you will face.

@Ryo1 I don't "believe in" myself. What consequences? Btw, I'm now convinced the moon ISN'T hollow; imagine my disappointment.


Pretty good write up. I also view your first paragraph as a valid reason to see that we do not have free will. This is because that info is different for all of us and our choices will come out of our past. Free will is an illusion because we all have a different past.

Our will is influenced by our experiences, yes. Our culture, exposure, possibly genetics could be included. A child raised in an urban Western environment and one raised isolated in the Amazon rainforest would become very different adults.


A good analysis. One can have the same BASIC world view as someone else and choose different points that lead to none divine OR divine conclusions.


“THIS is where you find practically all Christians.” and “When you examine enough other cultures and nations, you develop reluctance against jumping to conclusions about them based on your own limited world view.” Seem to me that something does not add up there?
Somewhat reminds me of Leo Tolstoy’s statement: “To marry a woman from the upper classes is to swallow the whole poison of civilization.” Then he went and married a woman from the upper classes. Psychologists call that ambivalence. Thomas Szasz called it an insatiable desire for attention.

I will concede, it could have been worded better, on the other site I posted it, I actually removed that sentence altogether, just forgot to do it here.


>>> THIS is where you find practically all Christians.

And that is your worldview on ALL Christians, is it?

Assumptions which underlie generalisation, and errors in thinking (cognitive bias) based on generalisation errors - perhaps, you want to think about these two things, since this is a philosophy & meaning page.

Ryo1 Level 8 Jan 14, 2023

I will concede, it could have been worded better, on the other site I posted it, I actually removed that sentence altogether, just forgot to do it here.

@Archeus_Lore It's not necessarily the wording itself. It is the broad generalisation and assumption about Christians you present in the first paragraph. It is often the case that people only engage in generalisation, which never leads to good debates/arguments.

@Ryo1 I'm not sure what part of "I actually removed that sentence altogether" you did not understand.


I am not sure what the fuck is wrong with the formatting in this post, I took what I had and pasted it into notepad, because notepad removes fucked up formatting, then pasted it back in and it was still fucked up, so it must be a problem on the server end. I pasted the same thing in another forum and it looks fine.

Other forums have a mechanism to change all input formatting to completely their own, hence no mixture on reposting. A possible explanation?

@Mcfluwster El if I know.

@Archeus_Lore Is it possible to work the answer out for yourself? -given my extra information. After all it is just a suggestion and I could be wrong. The percentage of things that one has to work out for yourself is constantly increasing. This is an enlightened age but if you are living in El it will not be your perception, I Agee.

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