The caste system holds them back. Most racist society I've ever witnessed first hand.

I couldn't live in India. The shit smell alone starting at the airport makes me vomit all day long.

@puff

Very true, most racist society. Indians in the U.S. and elsewhere overseas must never complain about racism. If you meet Indian, please tell them that. The horrible cast system is just one of the big problems. The constitution was written in 1950s to prevent that, strict laws were made against it (75 years ago) but humanity, justice and progressiveness is not in Indian people's DNA. They stick to customs, traditions and beliefs as a superior culture which was never superior to begin with.

@Castlepaloma

You are correct. I have tried so many times to figure if I could go back and live in India after retirement, I tried as recently as in 2023 for 60 days and I was desperate to get the fcuk out of that place before I was even due to leave.

What amazes me though is people are not aware of how bad it is. FALSE PRIDE or Jingoism is deeply seeped in. They think the world looks up to India for its superior culture and progress. 99% of them have never traveled outside their state, let alone outside India. India just had its national elections a week ago. The sitting and stupid prime minister made political ads that he stopped the Russia and Ukraine war for 3 days to bring Indians in Ukraine back safely. Many Indians laughed but the majority in the rural India bought it. That's how stupid India is. Hindi "War Rukawa Di Papa" means "He Stopped War Papa". He keeps glorifying himself every day. He also said in an interview that be believes his birth was not biological, it is divine.

Watch this John Oliver video, the comments on Modi start at 4.20

@puff, @Castlepaloma

@St-Sinner Whenever I see an Indian complaining about racism here in Oz eg "Aussies are racist" (which many are but that's another story) I ask what caste are they? Works every time, they shut up straight away.

@St-Sinner I always wondered why the smarter people didn't just pretend to be of a higher caste, then I found out it was race based ie facial bone structure, high cheekbones etc. I had one prick pull down his bottom lip to show off his square jaw to me whilst explaining the caste system wasn't the problem, the problem was they let half caste's in government. I honestly didn't know how to respond to that and just stood dumbfounded. This was Ranchi airport.

@puff

All things you are true. There are some peculiar things about India people outside of India don't know:

1. People of lower caste have forged documents to get reservations and preferential quota and treatment. India's PM Modi is one of them. To get lower caste votes he forged his caste certificate to get their votes
2. But claiming to be from a lower caste is not easy. Birth certificates require noting caste, sub-castes. Forging it later is hard and the caste discriminations is permanent because everybody in village and town knows who you are
3. You can tell by one's facial structure, skin color who you are and what caste and sub-caste your are of. For example, the "Jatav" last name means a cobbler. It stays with all your life. You tell me anyone's last name in India and I can tell you what state they are from, their language, food, religion, cast, sub-cast and all the rest. My last name also denotes caste, class, profession, skin color, state etc.
4. The lower caste are not allowed to live among upper castes. They must live outside town and not take water from upper caste water wells. Else their entire neighborhoods are burned down. It is done even today and every commonly
5. Lower caste cannot marry upper cate, else invite honors killing
6. Cast and sub-caste is the biggest election issue and all castes vote as a block. Politicians play all up against each other.

Casteism is terrible. I enjoyed all privileges of being from an upper caste (Brahmin) since childhood but was turned off by the whole Hinduism and traditions bullshit and could not even wait to get the hell out of the horrible society. Indian food, history monuments, affordable costs, nostalgia? Yes, but all else is horrible. I know there are Westerners who have romanticized India, Hinduism, Buddhism and Eastern shit and that is just mind numbing.

@puff, @Castlepaloma

Please read this

@St-Sinner Your #4, I was working there looking for Coal Seam Gas. It was a stinking hot day so I grabbed 2 bottles of water from the fridge where we expats ate, one for my driver "tappa" eg Nepalese driver. My Indian boss called me into his office a few days later and informed me he had written a letter of complaint about me and sent it to Australia, he was West Bengali. My crime was giving my driver "our" water. I knew what my bosses in Oz would think, screwed up the copy he gave me and threw it at him, a good shot bouncing off of his forehead, and stormed out. As I was leaving he called me racist so I stopped mid stride, walked back to his desk and informed him that I wasn't racist, that I just didn't like dickheads. I was so angry I was shaking.
When I returned to Thailand I went to see my friend, a very popular Monk. I sat waiting my turn in a room full of Thai's. When I got to talk, I informed him that I understand Buddha now as the caste system is totally fucked up!!! (the story goes one of the very first things he said was "fuck off the caste system" ). My friend laughed, the whole room laughed.

@puff

Fully believable. When I went to a home of a lower caste family, not in a village in India somewhere but in a big city. they offered me a chair and all sat on the floor. When asked they said they couldn't sit on chairs because I was upper caste. That's how horrible they have made the society.

@St-Sinner The best description of India I have heard is it is "confronting". It confronts all your senses, your morals and everything you assumed about life. I made very good friends there, friends to this day though only on facebook now. I had a ball playing cricket with the village kids. I found Indians were either shit hot and great or as useless as a hat full of arseholes. You don't seem to get in between. Understand I was there to work so had no control of my movements, I never went close to tourist spots like Goa, New Delhi etc.
I am so glad I worked there as whenever my life seems like it has gone to shit and I start feeling sorry for myself, of which I have had my fair share, I just think "At least I wasn't born low caste in India" and I immediately feel better. Perspective which grounds me back to reality on what is really important in this life we find ourselves in.
I understand it must be tempting for you to return to your country of birth where you could live like a King and lord it over others. Much respect to you from this mongrel Aussie (My Mother was born in the Netherlands, Father of British heritage 150 years ago)

@St-Sinner I've always thought the English, The Raj, used the caste system in their old "Divide and Conquer" to advantage themselves and made it much more divisive for Indians in general. Any truth to that do you think?

@puff

As far as I understand from the history, the caste system has existed in India for thousands of years before any invaders (Greek, Persian, Afghan, Mamluk, Tughalak, Sayyid, Lodhi, Bahmani, Mughal, Portuguese, French, Dutch and the British) in the last 3,000 years. It is how the society was structured around the Indus valley where the Hindus (Sindu river residents) originally stayed. The society operated on the class and caste system.

In my understanding, the British played up the "class" system against each other in India such as privileged, the royals, educated, illiterate, rich, poor, landlords vs workers, master vs bonded labor (slaves) and so on. The divide and conquer was based on the class system. The caste system was too complex for them to fully understand. It is complex for me when I actually was born and grew up and lived there for 28 years. The differences include subtle many many differences. For example, there are over 20 sub-castes in the cobbler caste. The political parties and their psephologists understand that better than anyone.

It seems that you have picked a lot from your stay in India. That is commendable since the society is very complex. If I were a U.S. large business, I would hire firms like McKinsey, Deloitte etc. to understand how to localize the business, else it could be a total failure. Just the take the Indian Pizza Hut example. Every pizza in every state is different, its cheese, meats, sauce and toppings and sides are different.

@puff

"The best description of India I have heard is it is "confronting". - is very accurate. I heard other terms in travel videos which are "stressful" and "it will work you up".

Rightfully, India never comes up as an ideal place to stay for ex-pats although it is very cheap. Since I have an apartment in Mumbai, I can live on $250 to $300 pm with a cleaning lady daily and home cooked delivered twice a day. But it comes with high noise and air pollution, high crowding, traffic congestion, lack of safety, inefficient government, corruption, electricity and internet shutdowns, water shortage, monsoon flooding in Mumbai, dirt, open defecation, uncollected garbage on streets (not even in trash bins), religion in your face, noisy neighbors, gossip about everything you do. And all this for an upscale area. In 2023, India was the country with highest internet shutdowns in the world.

@St-Sinner Interesting the English put class into caste maybe. Could be something in that.

@puff

What I forgot to mention in the whole discussion is which was the biggest issue in the recent nation election of 2024?

Economy?
Employment
Poverty
Education
Inflation
Defense
Development
Welfare
Or Corruption?

The answer is .... None. It is Nationwide Caste Census.

I don't think many do realise, that's half the problem. 3 of the top 4 are BRICS, bit embarrassing for the G7