If you haven't seen it yet, the US Supreme Court released its ruling in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, finding that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission demonstrated hostility to religion and didn't adequately respect the baker's first amendment rights. They also particularly noted the difference between a business selling pre-made goods versus custom-made sales that require artistry. Although it was a 7-2 majority, the wording of the majority opinion was fairly narrow, suggesting that if the commissioners had demonstrated respect for the baker's religious beliefs but still ruled against him, the Supreme Court might have upheld the case against the baker. [washingtonpost.com]
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I'm a floral designer and some of the best floral designers that I know ,and some of the most amazing wedding Consultants I know are gay. They openly serve heterosexual people, but yet we still are arguing about them being provided with a service they seek because of their sexual preference . It shows how some people have perfected the art of Being worthless, selfish cunts.
Kojaksmom
Level 8
June 6, 2018
0
So how long before car repair, roofing, plumbing, etc, are all considered 'custom' and requiring 'artistry' by religious minded people wanting to deny service?
Quattrostagione
Level 5
June 4, 2018
1
If, for example, a roofer had a sincerely held religious belief that roofs should only be constructed from "traditional" materials (I dunno, maybe wood shingles) should they be compelled to install modern manufactured shingles because a customer wants that from them? Just because other roofing materials are legally permitted, does that mean that every roofer must stand ready to install every type of roof?
One of the key factors is that the religious belief in question must directly pertain to the service being sought. So a business that paints cars can't just say, "I don't like gay people" and then not paint a gay person's car, but they probably could refuse to do a custom paint job like the one below.
But, see, this is what the free market is all about. Do you really live where there is only one roofer in 100 square miles? Or only one plumber? I specifically don't hire companies that have that damn Jesus Fish in their advertising or "John 3:16" because that is my right as an Atheist NOT to support those companies.
"They also particularly noted the difference between a business selling pre-made goods versus custom-made sales that require artistry." And there is the difference....
If you disagree, then go ask a Jewish T-Shirt shop to print off "Heil Hitler" shirts with a swastika on them too.
SkotlandSkye
Level 8
June 4, 2018
1
And that instance of hate speech, they can indeed not do a swastika ,but they also can't do anything for the KKK and they can't do any kind of hate speech for anybody at all. The legality of gay marriage is no longer questioned. There is no reason for them to bake a cake for a straight couple and not a gay couple other than sheer discrimination.
@Kojaksmom Not quite. There are hundreds of places that sell Hitler-positive T-Shirts. It's free speech. You and I may think someone is an ass for buying and wearing one, but they have that right. Just as the Westboro Baptist Church has the right to wear shirts that say "God Hates Fags". So, then would you agree that a LGBT cake decorator has the right to refuse to make a cake that says "God Hates Fags" for a celebration down at the WBC? Again, these have already been challenged and ruled to be free speech. ((Hate speech is only hate speech if you are inciting people to harm others --- i.e. you can't wear a shirt that says "Gas the Jews" for example...but, yes, "Heil Hitler" is acceptable as free speech))
@SkotlandSkye if I was a cake decorator and owned my own business I personally would not engage in hate speech for anyone. I also wouldn't do a cake that was in the shape of Donald Trumps severed head even though I think that would be fucking awesome!
@Kojaksmom Exactly. You had the right to choose what to do...it was your business. That is the basis of the free market economy. Patrons vote with their consumer dollars -- who they hire and who they boycott....as it should be. Also, again, hate speech has a specific definition...and NO ONE should engage in hate speech as it's illegal. But, as in my examples "Heil Hitler" and "God Hates Fags" is not considered hate speech....it may be "hateful", but it fails to meet the legal definition of hate speech.
@SkotlandSkye but you have to understand if you chose a bakery you could be turned down because you're not a Christian. You may have to get in your car and drive for miles to find another Bakery because they hate heathens. I think we all have to make some personal sacrifices for the greater good ,I have no problem with that. I do side with Ginsberg on this issue . If you're out to serve the public we need to have a unambiguous definition of what the public is. We also, I guess ,need a definition of what a wedding cake is. Apparently a wedding cake is not a celebration of a couple's Union, it's a celebration of their non matching sexual reproductive organs.
If I were the judge I would ask the owner of this cake shop the following questions:
Me - Is your establishment open to the public? Yes or no.
Him - Yes
Me - Are gay people members of the public? Yes or no.
Him -
Ellatynemouth
Level 8
June 4, 2018
2
Isn't there a difference between selling pre-made goods "off the shelf" versus taking a commission to create customized work? Anyone can walk into a store and buy a CD, musicians are generally free to perform or refuse to perform for private groups as they see fit. Anyone can buy a print of a work of art, but artists are free to accept or decline commissions as they see fit.
If these customers were straight they would have been served.
@Ellatynemouth And if Trump were Obama, Jay-Z would have performed at his inauguration.
Funny. Let me know next time you're denied service in a shop because you're straight.
I agree
@Ellatynemouth even if it was their fifth marriage
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