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When growing up there was talk of the world being over populated. New S.Koria women average one about 1 kid and they call it a problem.

Bobgriffin 4 June 5
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Apparently the population of the world could be fitted into one state in America ๐Ÿ˜ฎ . So much for over population . It is more a case of feeding them all i suppose , and population control measures like wars and the like are handy devices/tools to lower numbers radically. I'm kind of seeing that anything heard anywhere on any media device, is generally suspect and bias in favour of who orgainsed the news feed. Look at what china did and the outcome of it ?? 1 child per family so they chose only one sex of child as a preference. Now there is a shortage in one sex and total imbalance. I agree with the statement below , if people decided wisely upon having children, that they could afford to raise and have the time to spend quality moments with them; Then there would be less people on the planet and the ones here would be generally happier than being born into poverty as everyone has the right to build babies , but some don't think of the real effects it will have on a child , just so they can feel fulfilled as a parent . << I will probably get shot down for that statement ๐Ÿ˜‰ . I personally chose not to have children for many reasons, I would have loved nothing more than a mini me , but i am a realist as well as a responsible adult ๐Ÿ˜‰ . Love and peace too you all .

I wish I had been as sensible as you when I was young. Mostly I had children because of general social expectations and the desires of my first wife. Those weren't good reasons to go forward with that. That is why I push mindfulness.

I don't buy antinatalism, but one thing antinatalists have a point about is that you should have a lot of respect for the kind of life you're able to give to this new person you're bringing into existence with no say in the matter, because you can guarantee a nonzero amount of suffering that would be totally absent if they never existed. Also you're guaranteeing some unknown amount of suffering for yourself -- parenting is an incredibly challenging and often thankless project with no guarantees, and everyone seems to think it's the gateway to personal fulfillment. That's not fair to children OR parents.

@mordant Trust me , being a parent is only one of the infinite things you can do in life, that anyone can get terribly wrong. I was just aware i was not parent material, and Ive been aware since i was in nappies/diapers :-/ . I hope I have not come across as some kind of pompous fool with my view, it is just the way things are in life for me. Choosing not to be a parent is probably one of the few things i ever got right in life. << It is something I am as proud of, as i am saddened by << there will be no continuation of my gene pool from me, and i won't ever see the priceless images of my own little me, growing up. I have been traveling since i was about 2, and every four years until i was 31, so Ive never met anyone, being as i was a transient. I am from the middle of the last century, so i probably have different views and values to many these days , but I am pleased I never cursed anyone to the potential, of the life Ive led . For that alone I am content , even though I would have loved to be a father . I have made just about every other mistake possible to make in life, But i grew up somewhere down the road , and i look back and i am so glad i never cursed a child into poverty, a chaotic father and an unpredictable life . If i had ever felt this was it , the time, the place and with the right woman , no doubts it would have happened. But, i never found that time, that place or the right woman , so I am as lucky as the child that never was , i didn't mess him or her up and they won't live a life of unbalance, as a result of it .

@Pictishpup I made pretty much every possible mistake, including being a parent. The only thing that Just Worked for me was my professional life, which I was rather "take it or leave it" about. Maybe that's even the problem: what I care too much and try too hard about, I tend to screw up. But hey it's all over but the shouting and there's an endpoint anyway.

@mordant yeah i can totally relate to that :-/ . I am the same , anything that could have been good for me , i generally swerved to maintain my chaos in a self perpetuating cycle. I did not realise the worth in my own physical abilities until i lost them, and once lost is never found. I might come across as a sensible natured person , but i lived through my own self generated madness to create this persona i have now. It is only life experiences that enable me to see the error in my past way. Hindsight is a wonderful thing , but seeing it first would be more productive . I hope your situation, what ever it is resolves itself for you , painlessly .

@Pictishpup Thanks and same to you. Sometimes I think the bulk of my adult life has been spent reinventing myself out of existence. Ironically I think my 21 year old self would look at my 61 year old self and say, wow, I will become what I now despise. And from the other direction, I used to be what I now despise. Life is funny that way ...

@mordant wow yes . i once saw retired life , grey hair , false teeth and tartan slippers as something akin to the Antichrist ๐Ÿ˜€ . It would seem at a slow speed on the mentality cooker, we evolve as we age , to accept exactly that which was always previously unacceptable. I cannot say i wasted my life, I see my present effect, ( where i am in life ) as the end result of the cause of my actions , up to the instant i type now. Had i not been the guy i was , i would not be the man i am now. I was a self destructive idiot when younger, as knew no better , so expected no better from myself, even though i did not like my lifestyle << hence i changed it; But i cannot escape the ripples of my past, as they carry me into my future, with the ailments i bought upon myself ignorantly<< Probably blissfully so ๐Ÿ˜‰ . We live and learn , but cannot turn back time to avoid doing what ever it was, that we are displeased about in later life . It is nice to hear someone speaking in the same manner, for a change in life .

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Yeah, we always seem to forget we have some internal mechanisms that vary our population. Our "copulation rate" is NOT a constant. Some organisms spawn more when conditions are bad or questionable ... and some spawn much less. They can't get Japanese young adults to engage in sex anymore. Same with a few other cultures. The magic number is far below 1.1. Not sure how long it would stave off our problems before more calamitous things happened. We're putting a double whammy on the earth with environmental and resource problems at the same time.

Well the ideal world population if you look at resource usage is a lot lower than what we have at the moment, so I applaud the Japanese. Itโ€™s a drop in the ocean...

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There was a spasm of alarmism about overpopulation in the 1970s or so. They were either wrong, or overplayed their hand, because they predicted dystopia by well before now, that never appeared. It sold books though, so there's that. Meanwhile, population growth did not exhibit the predicted geometric upward trend (because it's inherently unsustainable) and technological advances increased efficiency of food production.

It's been long enough that the current youth have no memory of that so it's time for another cycle of alarmism.

Population is self-regulating. It tends to limit itself around resource shortages but also in response to better education and economic situations. Crowding and leisure both reduce birth rates. But I don't mind the alarmism because anything that increases awareness around decisions about having children is a Good Thing, for children and for parents. Reproduction should not be some mindless default that's just "what one does".

I'd say the main problem now is unintended environmental knock-on effects of large-scale farming. And soon, quite possibly, side effects from clumsy efforts to remediate climate change, since we lack the will to actually stop feeding the problem. Together with lack of planning or execution on what planning there is. Governments are for the most part corrupt, having been co-opted by elites to insure their own short-term survival at the expense of everyone else.

So in the end population growth will only indirectly bring about harms.

There are other issues, such as the biosphere collapse on land and plastic waste and climate change at sea. Also you should look at projections for topsoil breakdown and insect populations, I find it amazing that people arenโ€™t doing continuous research into these areas.

@Denker Not that I disagree, but do you seriously find yourself surprised that the average bear out there doesn't have an interest in topsoil breakdown and insect populations?

@mordant bears no, but human beings surely should have an interest in how we are leaving the planet for our children and grandchildren? The last research I saw on topsoil suggested 95% of it would be gone in 100 years... quite alarming.

@Denker Sadly in the main they do not seem to have that much interest. I think most people regard such things as esoterica, they are more interested in whether Aunt Sally is liking or commenting on their FB posts.

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