Agnostic.com

10 3

Why do christians and the Jews claim their god is so forgiving?

If God is "full of grace" and "forgiveness" why does he not forgive the angels who rebelled against him? Is forgiveness only for humanity? If forgiveness is only for humanity then why didn't god forgive the people who were living in the promised lands? Joshua murdered millions of men, women, children and animals only so Israel could live in an area that they claim was promised to them by god! Where is this gods mercy? Why do women and children deserve to die over land? Even those who begged Israel for mercy and forgiveness like the Gibeonites were made slaves!

IpraiseMYSELF 6 June 8
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

10 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

2

Jewish and Christian thought are completely different. The Jewish people never took the Torah literally, they had scholarly debates over centuries asking the real meaning. Many of the statements were meant for discussion. Even the concept of God was a metaphor. Thus so many scientists come from Jewish backgrounds. Think about this. When Hitler took power, the most sophisticated city in the world was Berlin, and Jews were 42% of the doctors and faculty at universities. That is because they did not take the Torah literally, but questioned everything.

Further, if you look at the Jewish concept of why God chose Abraham, it was because he was a rightous man,. that is, he was a good kind man.A person than is judged on their actions. You don't need a God to see why the Jewish people, even though 52% now are atheists, continue with 1% of the population, to win 25% of the Nobel Prizes. This is statistically not reasonable, but it is fact. It entirely has to do with thousands of years of questioning, and searching for what is real? As Camus said: "You are your actions."

When Paul wrote the New Testament, he said God chose Abraham because of his Faith. That is,
just believing in something had value. You could live a horrible life and be "saved" by believing in something with no proof. Relating the two religions is absurd, there is no judeo-christian beliefs, just Christians trying to hang on to their origins, but are held with disdain by Jewish people. You don't have any books banned by Jews, ever. In fact, the Jews gave the Greeks their written language, before which, they were completely illiterate.

Judaism is far more than a religion, it represented a nation and way of life. It was based on compassion, a love for scholarship and learning, family values, and as the old Rabbi would say, the center of Judaism is in the bedroom, for without a loving couple, there is no family.

It's very easy to be Jewish, love the culture, the values of learning, scholarship, creativity, helping others, and not believing in a supernatural deity. We judge people on their acts, not what they think.

You have put a lot of thought into this lie! But you do not fool me and your on the wrong site to promote Jewish religion. The Jewish religion does not promote love it actually promotes hate through a group of people who think they are better than everyone else. You are taking basic human actions of learning, family values, creativity,and helping others, and trying to say these qualities are present because your Jewish? Thanks for proving my point! Did it ever cross your mind that there are people in the world who have the same qualities that are not Jewish? If the Jews never took the Torah literally then why did they murder people for the promised land? If the Jewish people are so loving then why do the majority of cultures in history say they are a selfish group who only care about themselves? The concept of god was not a metaphor, your just a liar and your not fooling anyone. The Jews have always been known for their religion and even though they claim to be a people they are not very strong considering the US military had to make them an actual nation because they couldn't do it themselves!

I have never heard anything about these facts about Judaism and Jews before. This was ver enlightening. Thanks 🙂

@IpraiseMYSELF You wrote one nasty response. That is sad. Are you normally this mean to other people? There are many differences between different people. Jewish people are a nation, and within them, there is a religion. They are not one and the same. We can love our culture, history, and values and not believe in anything supernatural. No one wrote horrible mean things to you.

Particularly embrace Tikkun Olam "Toi heal the Earth", and I think that is a good thing.
Looking at my friends or family, it would be a rare person that believes in any kind of Supernatural.

I've actually done things to help the world. For example, I taught science to the poorest children in the United States on the Pine Ridge Reservation, then became a grant writer for the tribe.

I played with the most active Jazz big band in the state of Florida for `13 years and donated all our earnings, millions of dollars to local charities.

I eat a cruelty-free Vegan diet, which is much better for the environment and doesn't cause the horrible practice of factory farming. If the world went Vegan, that alone would solve the climate change problems. And, even if most people were plant-based, we could easily feed the world.

What do you do of value?

Yes, I['m fascinated with how religions evolve. But if you look at what people believe 3,000 years ago, those were very primitive beliefs.

@IpraiseMYSELF I thought I would add, Isreal did not murder it's inhabitants. You're thinking of what the colonists did to the Native Americans, like where your home is.

Most Arabs fled because 5 Arab Armies attacked Israel in 48, and were told to flee the arab army by the Arabs. Those that stayed, are called Israeli Arabs, and none of them want to leave the freedom or benefits of Isreal. The Isreali Arabs go to the same schools, doctors, vote, serve in Knesset and eligible for any government job.

Many fled to the West Bank, which was part of Jordan. If they tried to enter Jordan they were machine-gunned. There was no call for a Palestinian country when Jordan owned the land.

Gaza was given, with greenhouses to the Palestinians, said, here's a land, sure you can make a country. Instead, Hamas destroyed the greenhouses that could have feed everyone, used them to shoot missiles into Arab sections. The worst victims of Hamas are Palestinians, as those that don't agree with Hamas, such as PLO members are thrown from roofs.

When Isreal was created, I'm sure you didn't know this, just as many Jews were expelled from Arab nations, or murdered such as those in Iraq. Isreal absorbed every one of them.

Why couldn't these rich Arab nations absorb this population that spoke the same language, had the same religion, same customs? No, the Palestinians were sadly used as pawns.

Instead of getting humanitarian aid from the other Arab nations, they were given weapons and hate materials in school. Isreal; gives them water, electricity and other humanitarian aid.

With all the money spent on Arab Tunnels in Gaza, they could have built a tourist mecca, like the UAI. But the Palestinians are used as pawns. I feel and always have felt terrible for them.

You realize after WW II, there was nowhere for Jews to go. For example, before WW II 3,000,000 Jews lived in Poland. Those that tried to go home were murdered. In 1946 AFTER WW II ended,56,000 Jews trying to return to their homes in Poland were murdered by the Polish people with government support. No one in the world said a thing.

You probably didn't know that.

In 1998 Arafat turned down the agreement for 98% of the West Bank, payment for the rest, but he said he'd be assassinated if he took that deal agreed to by Clinton, Rabin and Arafat.
Too bad he didn't have the courage of Rabin and Sadat, both of which made peace and were assassinated for their own peacemaking. Now Rabin and Sadat were men of greatness.

If the Arabs put down their weapons, there would be peace and cooperation. If the Jews stopped defending themselves, they'd all be dead.

Isreal could easily have wiped out these nations that attacked them. Now Saudi Arabia and other Arab states are friends with Isreal because they fear Iran. I don't blame them..

Now who are these "Palestinian" people.

The name Palestine came from the Romans as an insult, to name it after their enemies.

The Palestinian that came there NEVER had a country.
They had no uhnique language,
no unique currency
no unique religion
they prayed to Mecca.
no set of laws
no leader before Arafat, and he was from Cairo, and trained by the KGB.
They called themselves Saudis or Syrians before Israel was recreated.

The Jews are the people where their homeland was Israel. It was stolen from them.
They had rulers 1,000s of years ago, their own currency, language, religion, they prayed to Jerusalem, they had a set of laws, and judges, they had leaders thousands of years ago.

Thus Isreal and the Jewish people do have claim to that land.

That said, I want a peaceful cooperation between all the Middle Eastern Nations and peace and prosperity for the Palestinians. They have to accept peace. I don't support the right wing ultra-orthodox settlements, but that's not he obstacle to peace, as they turned down the West Bank when there were no settlers.

Still, the West Bank remains the most logical solution. Settlers would have to accept Arab rule, as we did for thousands of years, but the first demand must not be all Jews must leave. That term is Yudenfree, invented by Hitler.

And, as said, there are lots of loyal Israeli Arabs.

Unlike your home, which was stolen from the original inhabitants. What have you done to help the small Native American population where your ancestor's stole everything they had and committed genocide.

I did something. I spent several years teaching science to the poorest children in the US, the Lakota on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Far better to do something positive that to stew hatred.

As far as Jewish values of learning, how do you account for Jews, at 1% of the Population have 25% of the Nobel prizes. It isn't because they're smarter. It's because they question everything, and are taught to love learning when they are children. And, because they question, they are innovative.

Other countries that ephasize education are one's where the students memorize material, not innovate. Thus Israel is like a country that is a Silicoln Valley.

Recently, Netanyahu asked the Iranian scientists to join with them to solve world problems.
Did you know about that offer?

Netanyahu offered advanced water technology to Iran, and Iran, rather than help their people dieing of thirst said "But out" They would rather there own people suffer than accept Israeli help.

0

For the same reason Han Solo shoots Greedo in the star wars bar. Its a story!

0

Forgiveness is something to celebrate if it's for you, something to be indifferent about or hostile about if it's for the Hated Other.

0

When you take pride in any cult, you'll have problems distinguishing it's truths from reality.

2

So they can make those who are subservient to their dogma feel chosen above others and indirectly intimidated by the possible loss of their selected position?

0

Because, otherwise, they couldn't bear to live with him.

6

The 'god of the bible' is not merciful. Not in any way.

The god of the bible sent bears to rip 42 children to pieces for the 'crime' of daring to mock a bald man. The god of the bible slaughtered not only every man, woman and child on earth with the exception of a single family, but slaughtered the entire land animal and land plant population. The god of the bible turned Lott's wife into salt for looking back over her shoulder, but didn't give a shit when Lott's daughters got their father rat-arse drunk in order to have sex with him. The god of the bible declares that if a man rapes a woman, he has only to pay her father 50 shekels and he can marry her and continue to rape her for life.

So why do christians say their god is good? Because actually admitting the truth would be seriously embarrassing - so they LIE!

I can't disagree with anything you wrote.

3

He is only full of grace when the priest says he is and then other times he is a demanding god. It is all double talk so you won't ask questions and will just stay in lockstep formation with the views of the church. You must be a sheeple to attain grace.

3

Beats the hell out of me. There is certainly nothing in the Bible that hints at God being anything but a DICK!

3

When you get past people's acceptance of completely unproven and objectively absurd dogma, any lie or logical inconsistency associated with it is totally possible.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:102715
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.