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Socialist vs. Socialism?

You can be socialist without "believing in" or proclaiming Socialism. You can be socialist without even being "a Socialist." It's a simple recognition of the reality of history, economics, and human nature. We evolved as social creatures sharing the property that produced wealth - the land. But then classes emerged with some dominating and expropriating others. Capitalism eventually developed based not on freedom but on Theft (the land and precious metals of the Americas and the land of European peasants). It developed on Force (forcibly dominating and taking over the lucrative Asian trade). And it developed on outright slavery, for the sugar and and cotton industries. We are thus left with a grossly unequal cutthroat world where some simply cannot compete. Worse the imperialist countries maintain dominance by war and regime change which creates chaos everywhere. And worse of all, capitalism is destroying the planet. The solution is NOT the implementation of some theoretical Socialism. The solution is to combat these problems while educating others that the problems (including the problem of Trump) are not mistakes. That those problems are essential parts of capitalism. Thus the problems must be combated while fundamentally reducing the power of those with the capacity to make them. "Progressives, Socialists, and Black Lives Matter" "Progressives, Socialists, and Black Lives Matter" Group

Krish55 8 June 22
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8 comments

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Somehow we need a balance between socialism and capitalism, at least until something technological exists to allow everyone to exist and have basic needs met.

I feel like all socialism removes the drive to succeed, and that all capitalism exists to steal the value of labor from the workers.

Brains and hard work must be rewarded, but we cannot let that take away from basic human needs. Everyone needs access to shelter, food and water, health care, and even the means to profit from work.

I don't think that 50% of the population should control 99% of all the wealth, thats where we are at in the US right now. The top 10% control 77%, and even worse, the richest 1% hold about 38% of all privately held wealth in the United States.

From [qz.com]

In 2015, the most recent year for which Quartz could access this information, the median member of the US Congress was worth at least $1.1 million. That is more than 12 times greater than the net wealth of the median US household. And that doesn’t tell the whole story, since the chambers of congress are not equal in wealth terms. The median net worth of a senator was $3.2 million, versus $900,000 for members of the House of Representatives.

So it kinda looks like the top 10% are currently running the government here in the US.

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I am not really following your logic. I am a socialist and my labour party are the party of socialism which crudely put is
"one person one dinner no one has two dinners till everyone has had one dinner"

jacpod Level 8 June 24, 2018
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Do you have sources to substantiate these claims?

Challenge them one by one and I'll respond. I'm looking forward to!

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Momma says capitalism is the devil, just like foosball.

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The human nature thing that the Right often spews (all people are selfish etc) is rubbish.

Not all humans are selfish. The poor give the most to charity and people come together during natural disasters.

All roads lead to the ruling class, who control our thoughts using the cultural hegemony (Gramsci) and the media (which they own). Every day we wake up to their voice.

Any business that is not a co-operative is exploitation.

There will always be more people than jobs because of the Reserve Army Of Labour. (Marx/Engels). Alluded to by Thatcher as 'natural unemployment'.

Capitalism is inherently flawed leading to regular crises.

More worryingly, the ruling class will always prefer fascism over socialism.

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As a child and grandchild of coal miners, fortunate enough to have been born into Britain's post-war socialist experiment, the welfare state (now, like the New Deal, being dismantled at an ever-increasing pace, or handed over to privatization the better to swell the corporate bottom line) I was given an affordable roof over my head and access to free health care, protected from the diseases of poverty - such as rickets, now making a significant come-back in twenty-first century Britain and the US - and allowed, unlike my parents and grandparents, to continue education beyond the age of fourteen and so to have the means to step up from manual labor and into a profession.

In my experience, and those of hundreds of thousands like me, socialism works.

Im surprised no one has called you a commi yet or mentioned venizuala .....they always do when i say this

@Simon1 Most Americans know little of socialism and usually conflate it with third world banana republics or National Socialism (an avowedly right wing fascist ideology and sworn enemy of Communism), or use it as a disparagement (when I first arrived in the US, it was odd to hear the marvelous British National health Service referred to, rather sniffily, as "socialized medicine", the implication being that it was a second rate , suspiciously Soviet-like copy of the supposedly superior US healthcare system).

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One problem with any system that makes them all doomed to fail .....humans

Simon1 Level 7 June 22, 2018

That's the whole point of not talking about a replacement system but of a critique of cap's problems and specific fundamental solutions!

@Krish55 herein lies the major problem of your position. The “flaws” people often discuss with capitalism are integral to capitalism. Capitalism cannot work without a large body of impoverished people that can be coerced into selling their labor for a small fraction of the value they produce.

That's what the ruling class want you to believe.

@Prescott I agree with you. But in solving that problem we will eventually create something else. We just don't have to give it a name as yet.

@Krish55 makes sense

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I believe there are different applications of socialism as well as capitalism. It would just take working out the compromises to make it work for everyone's benefit, but that most likely will never happen. Selfish human nature, power, greed always prevails.

Human nature is shaped by our environment. Greed and selfishness are not inate human qualities.

@Prescott Your opinion is noted as is mine.

@Prescott Yes I agree. We in most western countries promote individualism which is all about self-interest. Other places like China and Japan have a more collective approach, where they put family or community first. I like that

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