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ATHEIST REFUGEES
It's truly amazing and heart-warming how many questioners and non-believers have found community here. What I wonder is: how much is too much? I have heard so many stories of folks who feel alone, closeted, reviled and threatened even in the US. At what point should someone pick up stakes and get the hell out of Dodge (yeah, I know that's an old reference) and find someplace safer or more welcoming? At what point should someone who lives somewhere more tolerant encourage others to move away from the fascism of the faithful? I would really appreciate other's perspectives as I am wrestling with this myself.

kmdskit3 8 Dec 30
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16 comments

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1

My wife and I are at the point where we are beginning to feel that staying here, in the USA, for our children and grandchildren is not an option. Our kids are in their 40's and if this is where they want to stay and fight, power to them. We are in our 70's and it is no longer our country. The trick is finding someplace less superstitious that will have us with our limited language skills: English only.

TWDay Level 4 Jan 20, 2018
1

We moved to Red Wing, when I retired in 2015, from the Twin Cities. After the 2016 election and discovering the majority of our new neighbors were Trump and Jason Lewis supporters, we were very close to selling and moving again. Still on the step on that decision, too. I'm not sure there is any place in the US that isn't similar, though. Urban areas are mostly more tolerant, civilized, and less violent, almost everywhere. Rural areas have been down-breeding for centuries with the smart kids leaving and the dumb ones staying and reproducing. So, we will find ourselves surrounded by dumb folks no matter where we live in this country.

TWDay Level 4 Jan 20, 2018
1

In my city, Minneapolis - pretty liberal - I have met many Thinkers and Non-Believers who fled from Texas, Arkansas, Missouri (Misery), Alabama, etc. Many secular and liberal people came here - are kind of like "refugees" from the bible belt. If it is possible, I think it is best to "get the hell out of Dodge".

SKH78 Level 8 Dec 30, 2017

Also a Minneapolitan! I'm thinking of going to Sunday Assembly in Jan. Have you ever gone?

Having grown up, literally, in Dodge City, Kansas, I totally agree with the "get out of Dodge" advice. Never live in Kansas, no matter how much the Koch machine wants to pay you.

@TWDay My mother's from Dodge and I lived in Garden City too, among other places in Kansas! When were you in Dodge, or any other KS location?

@kmdskit3 I grew up there between 1948 and 1967. Left Dodge for tech school in 1967. I brought my family back irregularly for holidays until my parents died in 2013.

@TWDay Did you know any Dumler's? That's my mother's maiden name. She had 2 younger brothers and her parents taught in the Dodge City schools.

@kmdskit3 It has been so long since I've spent any time in Dodge, I only remember a few names of people who were close friends 55 years ago. I don't know where any of them are today, though. My father was a high school teacher and my step-mother taught piano for years.

1

work from within. you can do alot of good by leading by a rational example and pointing out the 7 trillion galaxies some think are preconceived. maybe post fliers with the websites now available for us

1

Many people are alone (including me) for reasons having nothing to do with religion. It's a matter of finding ways to reach out to a community, whether virtual or out in the real world.

It seems like we're creating a virtual community here but aren't there places where no real world community exists? I know I'm older but I always prefer the tangible.

Any place civilized enough to have Unitarian/Universalist community will probably have a "tangible" community for you to join.

0

I really resent the notion that atheists and atheism are targeted at large by society. I don't like your use of the term refugees and I think it's ridiculous to assert that there is any legitimate threat of physical harm to the atheist community at large that would warrant leaving the country.

There are real refugees who need to be protected in this country and you should not claim yourself among them. These people leave their homes because they have no choice. I don't think you could make a reasonable argument that atheists in America face the same threat of physical violence and harm that warrants leaving the county.

There are and have been real fascist regimes that have posted real threats to real individuals. It's a billion times harder being a young black male in this country than an atheist. You are not oppressed and you cannot claim these terms. This country is 100% safe for atheists. Stop calling yourself closeted, stop calling yourself a refugee and stop insinuating that atheists face an existential threat in this country.

I wouldn't disagree with a thing you said. The intolerance faced by non-believers does not compare to what many folks around the world and in this country face. However I have read some folk's comments on this site with what they have faced and continue to face. It is not pretty and things continue to get worse. Oppression is a continuum. Being left-handed in the UK isn't the same as being a gay atheist in Bangladesh but they are on the same continuum. What I am talking about is a quantitative difference not qualitative.

I don't think it's appropriate to use phrases that generally refer to groups of people who are violently oppressed for this purpose.

So imagine what being a young black atheist would be like. Atheist is not a visible flag to attract repression, like skin color, but if you identify yourself as atheist in many or most parts of this country you will have painted a target on your chest.

1

It's inefficient to resist from the outside. You can't present a role model if you're not in there with the rest of 'em.

0

I think what applies would be Plato's allegory of the cave. Or who is Job Galt?

3

If you're not feeling safe, part of the community or like you are alone among people you don't identify with, HELL, yes!! Get your butt outta there!! Life is too freaking short.

SamL Level 7 Dec 30, 2017

Good advice. It's not always easy to do so. The tolerant places in the country and world are in high demand and expensive. Intolerance and religion are generally repulsive which means you can live among nut jobs, racists, and ignorance really cheaply. Look at the southeast.

No one said it would be easy. But quality of life should be number one on your list of life priorities. If you want it and you can't do it now then work towards it but don't just think about it. Make no excuses. Just do it. It will be scary but like a good roller coaster ride, it will be well worth it.

1

I’m from the US. It’s home. I’m here for the duration.

1

Stand your ground. People may not respect your beliefs, but everyone respects standing up for beliefs.

Not always.

@kmdskit3 Well, as Michelle Bachman always says, there's a 2nd amendment remedy for that 😉

1

I live in NH which is one of the least religious states in the country. I am willing to relocate should I meet someone who lives in another state. However as I learn about some of the extreme believers in the Bible Belt I would think twice about relocating to that area.

Yeah, my mother is from western Kansas and currently lives in OK. Don't mind visiting but pretty sure I don't want to live there.

I could not live in the bible belt unless it was a large city. Cities like Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Houston - lots of bible belters but also lots of groups for secular/atheist/skeptics. But the small towns - No, No and NO.

4

Too many churches? People saying prayer over their cheese fries and burgers for lunch? Prayers at sports games, praying for home loans, praying with family every time you meet, praying for weather, their neighbors aunt with cancer, praying for happiness. All this amidst the deafening silence from the skies. The viral credulity. Prisoners afraid to look at their captors, afraid to speak for being singled out. I would move.

0

I think it is crucial to get to know the individuals behind the groups. Remember how mob mentality brings out the worst in people? Well in contrast it seems that deliberate one on one exchanges with people of different viewpoints is the antidote for mob mentality. There are very few legitimately hateful people out there—each of us needs to be the best humans we can be so that the Koolaide drinkers can see us properly. And we need to make sure we are doing the same.

Lilie Level 6 Dec 30, 2017

Unfortunately it's not always individuals. There is a significant, powerful and well-funded movement to impose the christian version of sharia law in this country right now. Like you, I also have gotten through to some individuals but have failed with that endeavor too. Since the public education system is also under threat in this country critical thinking skills have already started to erode. We have had to develop those skills to come to our outside the norm beliefs. It is hard to communicate when you're not even speaking the same language. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you @Lilie it just seems like things have gotten dramatically worse and the decent into intolerance and tribalism continues. I have and am fighting the good fight but recently have begun to wonder if it's worth it.

It is hard to reason with very religious people, but I have seen change. What you do is talk with a person who is going through hardship and their belief system is not helping. Then there is an opening for something better.

5

I say come to the UK now! We are close to an atheist majority, but with Brexit on the horizon we need all the functional minds we can get... Otherwise it will just be the lunatics continuing to run the asylum!

Yeah, truly not sure if I want to stay here. Have lived in and travelled to many other countries and I am seriously tempted to "Get the Hell out of Dodge".

3

at the point where it feels too much. people have different levels of tolerance.

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