Heard an interesting statement today.
To paraphrase: We're all agnostic. Believers, atheists, the whole lot.
Agree, or disagree?
Why?
Thanks!
Although the word agnostic has several definitions of usage, its etymology derives from the Greek a-gnostic as in a = without and gnostic = knowledge. So its literal meaning is without knowledge.
In some areas we are all agnostic, but common usage generally relates to knowledge of god. As some theists claim to know that a god exists, they will claim that they are not agnostic.
Most atheists are agnostic atheists in that they disbelieve theist claims to the existence of a god and do not believe a god exists, but understand that they cannot know that it is not possible for a god to exist.
They will claim that they are not agnostic (but we know better).
An etymology is not a definition.
@bingst - yep, entymology is gay.
@Nutpoacher It was a joke - to show how the root and meaning of the word "gay" has changed over the years from happy to homosexual - I know its meaning rather than root but ......OK even I'm bored with explaining this now - just put it down to cultural difference in humour - sorry!!!!
I have always asked that question. Before computers I looked each word up in Webster. Brief definition and did not relate, So good to see your post , I am learning much more about the gnostic and what they held in their mind verses the main stream jesus.
Gnostic. (believe in everything) Agnostic (believe in nothing)
Gnostic relates to knowledge, not belief.
I'm just being simplistic
An atheist defines as a lack of belief in God.
So what on the sliding scale makes an atheist turn into an Agnostic or vise versa?
If you were to put your belief on a scale from 0-10 with 0 being 100% sure god doesn't exist and 10 being 100% sure god does exist agnostics would be about a 5 and agnostic atheists would be about a 7. If I have any doubts, my mind will over focus on the doubt, ending closer results.
To confuse things more R Dawkins says he is an Agnostic at 99 percent sure that God dose not exist. For earthlings like us only having access of 1 percent knowledge about our planet. Making it an extreme claim for anyone to call themselves a atheist of a 100percent, unless they are God and knows everything.
Agnostics believe in god, just not religion. Atheists don't believe in god
Agnostics: No sure of the existence of God
To be agnostic has nothing to do with belief, only knowledge.
I just don't care and could do without all the bullshit really. I'm on hear to escape it and if that means I'm agnostic so be it. id rather talk about my fish and nature.
bring it on!
what do you want to know?
We're not born that way.
We are all born Atheists
So ( a )gnosticism is about knowledge. Whether you know or do not know that a god or gods exist.
If someone can see proof, in the wings of a butterfly or the shape of a banana, then they know without question that God exists. Such a person is not an agnostic. Even if they're wrong.
It's a very fine line between belief and knowledge. I know that Australia is real, but having never been there, I am relying on evidence (presented as facts) provided by others. So do I really have knowledge? Or do I just have a strong belief based on trusting the information that I've been given?
its obviously the banana
I'm quite certain that there are no gods
I'm very certain that gods are man-made conventions. And further, that they've outlived their utility... indeed, that prevalent major religions are extremely detrimental to humans, the planet.
You could say everyone is agnostic. There's no way of knowing there isn't a little god hiding out there somewhere. I call myself atheist because I've never seen any evidence of one. I don't see any reason to believe in anything until there's evidence of it. Just because millions of people believe something doesn't mean there's evidence of it. There are thousands who believe the Earth is flat.
I think that anyone who consider themselves a scientist CANNOT be considered as anything else but an agnostic. Having an open mind is essential in science, but why would you start an investigation if you knew the answer already?
No one knows whether or not God exists or not. All 3 have their own separate claims, none of which are proven.
Believers: God Exists.
Atheists: God does not exist.
Agnostics: We will not know one way or the other.
Whichever statement you make, describes which of the 3 you are. All 3 are beliefs.
I would tend to agree but have to limit the case. Only the psychotic and the borderline among us invest so much so to have absolute beliefs. Most of us are not so guarded or armored in our psyches as to never admit at least to ourselves that there are things that we simply do not know. We are all aware that there are true facts in the world that we don't know have never knew and would not be likely to rectify. We all have our reasons of not acknowledging the importance of most of these things and most of these things can be safely ignored.
However, There are undoubtedly things which we all do and simply must claim to know. Much of this has to do with the construction of our identities and our perceived content of the world in relation to ourselves. Largely the content of this would be subjective and unassailable to external knowledge or counter argument. I could however discover or create some fact and find a means to communicate it to someone, anyone and be able to repeat for them or myself this demonstration of some, now shared piece of knowledge. ie. All those here to some degree think they know that there is utility in discursive, written language, namely English.
So there are certainly things that at least some of us do know and things that most if not all cannot know. Idealist Agnosticism is its own counter argument as it would not claim to knowledge that its claim must be true. ie If I claim that we cannot know anything, how could I defend this alleged knowledge?
If one starts to question religion from the start or when they finally see the light, that is how it all starts.. agnostic means you are sitting on the fence with the idea that there is a so called god out there and then determining whether or not its real. I started out agnostic for many years.. until I finally made a decision that I don't believe any of the BS theists claim to be true. Blind faith is not in my radar.
I guess i am if you count it as im not dead so i couldnt know, but I have zero doubt there is no god, so i call myself an atheist.
I think we are all born with an open mind (i.e. unsure about any argument as to how it is that the universe or life itself exists) Its how we are educated and what we choose to beleive that defines us. However, I would agree that we are all agnostic, anyone who claims to be 100% about anything simply lacks a rational mind. That being said I am by many definitions an athiest as well, its just that god is not falsifyable, and therefore cannot be disproven, this is not a good argument for the existence for god, just a reasonable argument to be, if only a little bit, agnostic
Matt Dillihunty and Aron Ra often say that people claim to "know what they don't know". Aaron Ra also says "if you can show it you don't know it".
If the definition of a God includes something that cannot be perceived then we are all agnostic. We can not claim to "know" something that by definition we can not "know".
This being said with all of my knowledge and experience I am certain that a God does not exist. I just cannot claim to "know" it.
Saw a great bumper sticker once:
Agnostic, I don't know, and you don't either!
Still an Athiest, don't believe in God or gods..
I guess if you base it on the “without knowledge” meaning, sure. If you take it a bit less literally and apply it to how people feel re: beliefs, you’re not as correct. Some people are fully in on that religion and spirituality.