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Serious Dilemma

Okay I consider most of the people I have created budding bonds with here to be of high intelligence. I need some literal advice and I do not trust to get it from my friends Real Time. Recently I posted about the passing of my young friend. In the process, I made contact with his family, his father reached out to me and I, being the type of person I am, offered anything and everything he or his family may need. We ended up meeting up for lunch. Herein lies the dilemma. He is obviously making a pass at me. He is asking me on dates now and calling me constantly. I cannot tell if he is merely mourning and needs someone to talk to, but he is rather obvious and is even bluntly asking me on dates. I have no idea what to do about this. I am not interested in him. I have made it clear that I am very picky and that I am single for a reason. I have done everything I could at a very delicate period in his life. We are Both mourning the loss of his son, but on my end, its crossed a line into awkwardness. I am set to speak at his sons funeral too, so this has to go on at least until after the services. I do not want to abandon him, but at the same time, I cannot figure out how to get beyond the obvious. What would you do if you were me? I cannot figure out how else to point out that I am not intersted. I have been literal. No beating around the bush. I even explained how rare it is I find anyone romantically interesting enough for me to Want to date them. At the same time, I know he is in pain and maybe, psychologically, he isn't in his right mind due to this fact. How can I remain a friend without allowing him to cross boundaries?

Sadoi 7 Jan 13

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11

Be completely straight with him. Tell him he's making you uncomfortable and he's behaving in an inappropriate manner, especially given the current circumstances, and he needs to stop immediately. Don't be alone with him anymore. Decline his invitations.
Speak at the funeral, and give him a wide berth. Don't worry about his feelings, he's obviously not worrying about yours. Sometimes, you cannot remain on friendly terms with some people. They won't allow it, because they have an agenda. Sounds like he does and he's using his loss to pursue it.

Oh i did, indeed. chuckle Please refer to my previous responses to this thread to get an idea of what occured in response to his actions. I will not allow anyone to push themselves upon me in such a crude fashion and in the shadow of the death of his own child, whom I Loved. It was dishonorable. It was inappropriate. I made sure to express this in various manner from terse to blunt to outright. I left No Gray areas. You can believe that. I am no stepping stone. I won't tolerate it.

This is good advice @Sadoi you would be wise to follow it. I also agree that you need to put yourself first. Put on your own oxygen mask BEFORE helping others.

In this instance, telling him that you just got into a relationship with someone else may help him realize you are not available to him or anyone. Definitely do not be alone with him.

Good luck!

@shockwaverider No, I wouldnt lie to him. No need for that. I prefer not to hide nor make excuses in order to tip toe around a situation. Sometimes you must be clear when a person is attempting to take advantage of you, otherwise, how will they ever learn? If you just lightly tap them back, how will they understand the consequences to their actions? After I asked him over a dozen times to please stop and he opted of his own accord to continue, and to not only continue, but to get more and more persistent, then I believe there must be justice to follow, an unpleasant response, if you will. He may not like what the response Was, but he will surely understand the next time he feels the need to ingratiate himself upon me or anyone else for that matter, that maybe he should back the heck up, maybe this will not pan out in the way he imagines it could/should/would. I tried to be gentle, but gentle, he felt, meant Weak. After I realized his perception of my kindness, how he manipulated it and mistook it for weakness, I knew it was time for him to understand my compassion comes from a Healthy Place, not a Hazy, Weak place and I am not a sheep. I needed to make sure I was correct about his intensions, but once he made that painfully obvious and neglected my wishes, it was time he had his own comforts put to the test as well. It is tit for tat. If you treat me disrespectfully, I will not outwardly disrespect you in return, but I Will strike back at you in self defense, and it won't be done gingerly, either. There is a limit, a healthy limit, to empathy and to kindness. A line must be kept. It is the same in the field of medicine. You Must Learn to adhere to a line. You can feel as bad as can be for a patient, but you Must keep your distance. It isn't always easy to do, but it is necessary if you wish to do the Best, Most objective job humanly possible. You can care, you Should care, but there is a point where you must also Understand how to Not cross into the areas of gray. It is difficult to learn that line until you are placed in situations, that are common place for someone in the medical profession, but not always commonplace for the typical person. In my case, I was forced to Hone that skill/ability so I Can easily see when lines are crossed and I can steadfastly adhere to those boundaries necessary for a Healthy relationship. His behaviour is not healthy. It is almost egotistical to think it is your right to be so dishonorable and tacky. There is no tolerating such behaviours. There is no vague nature to his actions. It may sound harsh to some, but... I would Never have been placed in a position wherein I Had to make him feel... badly, had he Not continually chosen to make me feel uncomfortable and violated. It is simply a consequence to his ill behaviours. It wasn't nothing personal. It was me saying, "no fucking way. it is like his, not like that. this is How you deal with me." etc.

@Sadoi There is a famous quote you reminded me of, and I mean this as a compliment:

“Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me.”

? Al Capone

6

Sorry to hear you are having to go through this, not what you need when you're both mourning. From the sound of it I'd say you've been doing the right thing in being honest, I think if I found myself in your situation I would be asking myself if he has a support network, would he be okay without your help, if the answer to that is yes then I would keep contact to a minimum, and only regarding necessities. Professionals in health care often have patients fall in love with them, if you have to treat your relationship as though you are a counsellor and he is a patient for the time being then I would advise only discussing what needs to be addressed and stand your ground on the advances. if it becomes to much walk away. you need time to grieve yourself. People do strange things when they're grieving, hopefully as time passes the advances will stop. I always set my own boundaries, if someone approaches the line I warn them, if they reach the line I walk away. Good luck.

Dav87 Level 6 Jan 13, 2018

Read my above responses, my friend. You can better gauge how things panned out, in the end.

5

2 totally separate issues have become entangled.
One more shot at being blunt, say to him that you have been upfront and honest and while you share his grief, his ongoing attention is causing you distress, once more and you will have to take action to prevent him contacting you. His son has passed so beyong hurt or help. This matter is adversely affecting you and he may he hoping that he can use this situation to his advantage. Year ago a partners sister lost her young son, after the funeral the boys father kept hitting on her under the guise of grief. I know this guy, he was seriously hurting, but he was out of line.

I felt, instinctually, that a line had been crossed during the dinner. He was a bit forward. I felt it was obvious. His constant asking for another date after his business trip to Thailand, he wanted to take me to the most expensive restaurant in our city, and our city is filled with mostly wealthy, Dutch Christian's. He is one of those. He owns his own business, has a number of failed relationships... he must have forgotten, I was a Friend OF His Sons... hence, i do not forget what Jon told me About his father. I am a cautious person. It is just awkward now thought and although I'd come to the conslusion on my own that I was intending to Force those boundaries, I just needed to hear it echoed from other like minded people.

4

Do not be alone with him, ever! R!recruit friends to help! Then keep changing the subject. He may have incipient Alzheimers or something else, so just deflect & stay close to others until you can leave after the funeral, to avoid any confrontations

@FortyTwo Yes, I figured these things in as well. Please refer to my above responses so you can better understand the outcome. I seem to be repeating myself at his point. haha

4

You can’t. I understand you’re desire to help someone, but before you can help them, you have to help yourself. Say no and tell him not to contact you again. If he doesn’t stop, block his number and email. If you don’t consider yourself first, no one else will.
I’m sorry you have to go through this.

You are correct. Refer to my above response to glean a clearer idea of what I did in response. I am no pushover my friend. 😉

Smart girls don't do stupid things. Smart and wise girls don't do stupid things And they don't tolerate stupid people.

3

You have it together. Might try not to be alone with him as much as you can, don’t avoid, but allow him to have the space he does not know he needs. Maybe, not sure, you know best. Attachment is something we all struggle with, more time spent with something means we become more attached, I’m thinking he’s attached, and trying to grasp at you in a time of need. If you distance a bit he my grasp the next thing holding him down.

Yes, I have always been in groups with him, but I did notice he was gravitating toward me more than anyone else when I was together with their family. We had already made dinner plans though, since I had a date to have dinner with his son, initially, but in his passing, we decided to go together and that was the time it got rather obvious and i spent the whole of dinner trying to discourage him. It was a nightmare. Since then, i have not responded to him, but to the other members of his family instead.

Sounds like your doing great. I feel bad for the guy, but it would be worse for him to continue being attached. Maybe someday he can make the distinction, but that will take quite a while; if you wanted him in your life in any capacity, otherwise separation is best. @Sadoi

@Funandfondles I agree. If he can learn to cool his heels, I wouldn't have an issue with being a Healthy friend to him, but not at the expense of basic courtesy and mutual respect. If he cannot respect me enough as a human being to control himself when I clearly state my feelings, than how can he expect respect in return? Respect is a two way street. There are no freebe's when it comes to simple, logical rules of engagement. He cannot behave as he does, esp in the shadow of the death of his own child, my friend. How disrespectful. Poor Jon would have been embarrassed over his fathers behaviour and I Know that, as does his father. If that wasn't enough to dissuade him, then what is? If not as we mourn for the death of your child, then when? He must Also respect that I, too, lost someone. No, not my child, but I lost a friend. I am grieving as well. If he cannot understand how one should treat those around you that are also in pain, then how can he assume his pain means so much more that it allots him the right to cross my personal comfort zones? There are rules I adhere to. I was offended that he would attempt to use mutual pain to his advantage. I could see how he was using my pity and attempting to wield it against me, in the face of my compassion. Knowing how bothered Jon would have been only served to irritate me further. I warned him too. He knew what was coming. I cannot pity him if his only concern for that pity is to use it to get something he wants, to manipulate my empathy to further his ill-mannered desires toward me. There is no blurring those lines. It was blatantly clear what he was attempting. I simply let him Know, in no uncertain terms, that, not only was I on to him, but that I was also not some passive softie that Will sit there and take it. I Am very kind, very respectful, very sweet by nature, But.. if you attempt to abuse me with my compassion, I will defend myself and my rights. I don't allow it.

I can’t relate to the desperate nature of his thoughts letting him cross personal boundaries. Even in times of weakness, no means no. I once showed interest in a girl that did not share that interest, but I was up front about it. She told me she was not interested and I said that’s alright we can just be friends, I’ll call you sis, it stuck, and we were friends for years. I never thought of her as a prospect again, even though I was fairly certain she was trying to hit on me later in the friendship. The ship had sailed. My point is, he’s being petty, and he needs to see a psychiatrist. Also, he may be dangerous to you if he keeps on obsessing. Please be safe, don’t let him get away with anything, you don’t need to feel bad for him, and you especially cannot help him. @Sadoi

@Funandfondles Thank you. 🙂 I appreciate your kind words and you are correct. I did the best I could.

3

"Because I know that bereavement is most often an extremely disorienting experience, I am not comfortable conducting anything other than a platonic connection with someone who is in mourning."

(pause to gauge reaction)

(if necessary, proceed to)
"I understand that you are going through a difficult time and I want to be a supportive friend--but if you keep asking me out on dates I will disengage from contact with you, until such time as I feel you are able to respect my boundaries."

If he persists, he's showing that he values you more as a sexual/romantic prospect than as a friend--or he's so out of his head that he can't understand straightforward limits. Either way it's nothing you want to be around.

If he acts defensive and butthurt, he values you as a prospect AND has a fragile ego and/or wants to use his bereavement sympathy credit as a a smokescreen.

This is a sticky wicket. Stay strong.

Refer to my above responses, my friend. I did something similar. You shall see. 🙂

3

As a man with a son... I think he is being disrespectful of his son memory. Even if the deceased and you were not romantically involved. How could he use his son death to his manhood advantage? His death touched me without knowing him because it was a motorcycle accident and my son rides one. Reminding me of the danger involved. That's just happened a few days ago and his father is moving like a shark smelling blood in the water. You be strong and put him on his place. I don't care of the age difference or the availability. Some things are simply wrong. My atheist moral compass. He made a choice of what he wants from you... Is your turn to think about you and you alone. Dude just wrong. Losing one of my children will be too much for me to think about sex. Maybe he didn't loved his son and to him is just another excuse. Mind I don't know him I just know his actions. And as a father... I will judge him Unsat.

I agree - that man is being very inconsiderate of Sadoi’s grief

@ LizBeth read my above responses. Oh trust me. He Was put in check.

3

Oh my Zeus - wow - I am sorry you are in this situation. Grief does weird things to people. I have never been in an even close similar situation to what you are describing. My only advice at this time is to 'ride it out' until after the service (to honor your friend)....and then afterwards enforce your boundaries to a fault. Sending you all my encouragement So sorry you are dealing with this. ( I agree with the previous posters that you should try not to be alone with him.)

Hi my lovely friend! Read my above responses. I felt he was insulting the memory of his own son. I felt he was abusing and taking advantage of my kindness and of our mutual mourning. You will understand once you read my responses to the previous posts here. At this point, I am echoing the same story 😉

Taking his phone! That’s awesome - you are brilliant!

@LizBeth Why thank you. I contemplated thinking of sneaky ways to procure the phone, then it dawned on me, "duh, hes trying to impress you. Use that to your advantage. Ask for his phone. Maybe he will assume I am going to put My number into it. Maybe he will think I am attempting to flirt. Either way, its worth a shot." I asked, he gave it to me. Once he realized what I had done, I do not believe he was all too happy. Oh well. He proved to me that his actions warrented back up and whom better to go to for Back up that a Man of Faith's very Own Pastor. Try your argument for pestering and mildly stalking me to Your pastor. If you are grieving and losing your mind, whom better to go to Than Your Own Pastor. See, its a win-win situation. He Cannot fight nor resist me if I am With his Pastor. So he can either risk embarrassment and possible church intervention... or he can get his P's and Q's in check and back the F' off. It is his choice. But, if he pushes... i Push too... Push the "Pastor" button on my cell phone speed dial! 😉 The ball is in his court. He Will Behave... or he will face the consequences. I used his Own Game Playing Bullshit Flirting Against him. He wanted to be so coy and so willing and open... well... okay then, if you are open, open that hand and give me that cell phone! If he was so willing to offer himself up And his phone, Well thank you Sir! You just made my job easier. Check Mate.

3

Tell him you have an interest you have been talking to that fits you taste better and that it is very awkward that he is doing this.

I had no reason to lie about my position. I was clear and precise. Please refer to my above responses to better understand what I speak of. You will see. I doubt I shall have any further issues. I just wanted to hear the opinions of other likeminded people to gauge my own response to the situation. This was more than enough confirmation, to me, that I made the correct decision.

2

Your excellent description of the problem leads me to offer this suggestion in Hell Michigan : " just say no to any in person contact with the father. ....suggest the mother and siblings and others close to your dead friend be present at any in person meeting with the dad. ....answer his phone calls and consistently reply to his date requests with: "I already said no many times before, how is your invitation related to your dead son?" If you don't like his answer say that his repeated date requests are scaring you.

Good job on all posts below. ...call the preacher if his texts are wearing your battery down and tell the preacher time for a fornicator one man sermon to leave you alone

2

just cut to the chase give him no hope. his pain will not be eased by being with his son's friend.

2

Provide him with information on the grieving process. Tell him to contact a therapist.
He apparently misread your comments about "anything and everything". Avoid contact until you speak at the funeral. Be short, don't explain, just leave it at no thanks or not interested.

I did suggest therapy too. Since he is devoutly religious, at one point I said, May I see your phone? I reached for it. He was trying to make a pass at me so I had a feeling he would hand it to me, which he did, begrudgingly. I then looked for either Rev (reverend) or Past (Pastor) or Bro (Brother). I found his Pastor. I transfered his pastors number into my phone Right in front of him. I said, "If you need any help in the future, please let me know and I will arrange to meet you With your pastor so WE can get you the help you need." I made sure o let him know, I wasn't going to judge him harshly, but Likewise I WASNT going to allow him to push my limitations. I let it be Known that Although I Am kind, do not take advantage of that kindness because there is a flip side to me too. That side will not allow anyone to force me into a situation that I am displeased with. I had already distanced myself, but what I wanted, mostly, was feedback from other likeminded people, so as to reconfirm for Myself that I wasn't jumping the gun, being too harsh, etc etc. All I know is that, if something Doesnt feel right, I refuse to follow. I won't play along. I am against games in all form and fashion. Hence, it goes against my Fundamental Values as a woman, A Human Being, to give someone a free pass at a vulnerable moment in time. I have standards and I have Expectations, Mores, Rules of the Norm... I heed to those. Don't Cross My Lines and think I won't defend my positions. I didn't come to these bits of wisdom out of nowhere. I came to these conclusions from Life Experience and im Noo dummy. 😉 Nor a pushover.

@heyhihullo note to self, she's no dummy or pushover... and has a flip side... 😠

@sadoi ah, ok! 👍

@HeyHiHullo these things are true, else I'd not admit to them. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Golden rule of thumb. 😉 He wasn't subtle. He was vulgar. And the memory of his son, utterly disregarded. I could have overlooking Many things considering his condition and situation, but that man went way too far and abused his rights and abused my rights and abused the situation. That should Not be tolerated under any circumstances. What would you suggest? I allow someone to abuse me, to make me uncomfortable, to disrespect the death of my friend, of His own son? Sorry, but enough is enough. He doesnt get a free pass just because he is grieving. We are ALL grieving over here, but no one else insulted me in the manner he did. If he can be so ill behaved, expect a reaction to his actions. Simple.

I give as good as I get.

@Sadoi most excellent confrontation grabbing his phone and getting the preacher # ....I would call the preacher immediately after the next contact from this slime xian and ask the preacher to grab his fornicator believer by the balls and tell him to leave you alone

@Sadoi completely understand where you are coming from based on your tone and other posts, additional justification not necessary unless needing to vent, not judging your actions.
Breath... inhale... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10... exhale... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10... repeat as necessary to feel better. 🙂

@HeyHiHullo hahaha!! lol! touche sir! 😉 "Anakin! I Have the Higher Grooound!" haha

2

Whenever your in doubt, do the right thing and you know what that is. I agree with pretty much what everyone else said here (especially not being alone with him). Get upset, ask him how he could even think of dating you at a time like this. Tell him you will stay friendly for his sons sake but that`s it.

Read my above response, friend. 😉

1

This is a very delicate and difficult situation to have to experience. I am very sorry firstly for the loss of your friend, and second, that you have his father hitting on you..trying to take you out. Really everyone mourns things differently however there is really no excuse for that man to continue his advances when you have bluntly and directly told him you are not interested in dating him. Yes I agree the loss of a loved one..especially a child is devastating,,,but using the death of his son to rationalize his behavior is absurd. You don't deserve this as a greiving human being and if he doesn't take the hint distance yourself so you can heal and mourn without having to have the stress of feeling uncomfortable.

yes. I have done exactly that. i no longer respond to him, what-so-ever. I felt more irritated that he was taking advantage of the death of his Own Child as a way to find favor in courting me. Actually, courting is too kind a description of his Advances toward me. It was more akin to a Mauling! I had no choice but to back away because I simply could Not respect him as a person or even a human being at that point. My annoyance grew and grew, festered and enlarged each and every time I had to negotiate and/or deal with him. Eventually I knew if i did Not opt to distance myself, I was going to go Ape shiiit aaaall over his ass. Hence, the distancing seemed the better option of the two. chuckle

1

Perhaps the problem is in your goal; "How can I remain a friend without allowing him to cross boundaries?"

The initial question has no answer because the criteria cannot be met; ex 2x+3y=6 where y>=2 and x>0, solve for x.

At which point maybe unfriending him will force him to reflect to the point where he sees his loss and that he was in the wrong but if not it may be the only answer, even if it's not the one you want.

I have already cut him out of my life like a bad habit. 😉

1

You told him he wasn't intelligent enough for you?! Damn, brutal! It's not surprising he feels close to you given what he's been through and you were there for him. I'd just distance yourself from him until things settle, the more you go out to dinner with him the more keen he's going to be!

Well, I suppose at times I lack certain... social cues and perhaps I can be crued, but I felt it was warranted. I never would have said that, so bluntly, had I Not been pushed to the point that I was reacting off the cuff and with words to back my emotions. Perhaps it was a bit harsh to point out his lack of intellectual prowess, but he Also took me off guard when he opted to hit on me, the friend of his recently deceased child, and to do so in such a vulgar, disrespectful manner. In my eyes, he left himself Wide Open for that sort of reaction based on how he treated, or should i say Mistreated, me. It was like a knee jerk reaction for me. He hit a nerve. Repeatedly. In my mind, he got what he deserved. He'd best be mindful about where he chooses to poke his stick in the future. 😉

0

By being a friend at a comfortable distance. Facebook, email, text. It allows you to choose the depth and length of the conversation. Your "social bubble" is then not invaded, but you can still offer the empathy.

However, hurting or not, he's not licensed to ignore you when you've said no. No matter what you both are going through, he should be able to tap into his empathy in the same way that you have.

0

This is a very delicate and difficult situation to have to experience. I am very sorry firstly for the loss of your friend, and second, that you have his father hitting on you..trying to take you out. Really everyone mourns things differently however there is really no excuse for that man to continue his advances when you have bluntly and directly told him you are not interested in dating him. Yes I agree the loss of a loved one..especially a child is devastating,,,but using the death of his son to rationalize his behavior is absurd. You don't deserve this as a greiving human being and if he doesn't take the hint distance yourself so you can heal and mourn without having to have the stress of feeling uncomfortable.

0

Don't go on a date with him. Most likely this is a subconscious effort on his part to exercise his will on the world around him that will ease his feeling of utter helplessness in the face of his son's death. Going out with him won't solve anything for him and will only make trouble for you. I'm sorry for your loss, btw.

0

Sounds like you have drop him and let it go. Protect yourself. You have rights too. LOVE is not ownership. Be true to yourself. Giving to much can lead to self destruction.

0

Sounds like you have drop him and let it go. Protect yourself. You have rights too. LOVE is not ownership. Be true to yourself. Giving to much can lead to self destruction.

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