Wow..well said..thats pretty much how I feel..I felt like I was expressing that as I read though someone else was writing it....but you've covered all the key themes that bang around in my head..

Cheers.

@Hitchens I have faith( wrong word but) that there are enough positive HUMANS to promote a better society. (mind you, beliefs have been wrong before)

@bubaj50

Yes we just need to reconnect with our better nature...

Yes ...for sure, that's a core aspect of this..a deflection of our very real personal deficits.

Thanks Godef.

@Hitchens Not so much a deflection, more like a dragging someone down to their level for more company.

@godef An Equaliser..so to speak...

@Hitchens Exactly

Hey there..
Yes exactly .

Actually the 5 main themes that have come to the fore in this Post were the following in no particular order:

Shadenfreude.
Its just Human Nature.
Better them than me.
Their gain is your loss so their loss is your gain.
The son of a bitch had it coming anyway.

Thanks Marion.

Danke John-henry,
Shadenfreude ist ein großartiger deutscher Ausdruck. es war das Hauptthema, das in dieser Diskussion vertreten wurde. und scheint die Idee besser zu beschreiben als irgendein einzelnes englisches Wort oder Ausdruck

Richtig, mein Freund!

So really it could be distilled down to wired in evolutionary competition ..another aspect of human nature.

Thanks tiger.

Yea..its a long road ahead to change or at least mould human nature to its better nature of empathy and compassion rather than schadenfreude or morbid fascination .

Thanks..

@Hitchens one day at the time

@IamNobody

We'll get there eventually..or perhaps our great great grandchildren..?

but since we have always been that way does it mean not to try to get better or just stay the same.

@benhmiller Sure, we can try to be better. Some of us are even successful at being better. However, overall, human nature always wins out. At our base level, most of us will crawl over anyone to save ourselves. It's not "nice", but it's still the truth.

Very true..we are ying and yang in the good
/bad stakes..but I hope mostly good.

Love that saying about the bear..great imagery..

Thanks

@Hitchens I want to believe we are better more than we're not, but I have no illusions about the human race.

@KKGator at least to protect our family...which interprets as our DNA. The driver of Evolution.

@bubaj50 DNA means nothing to me. Never has. Family are the people who know you best, love you anyway, always have your back, and never talk behind it. Blood means nothing. It also doesn't "drive" evolution.
Adapting to physical conditions is what drives evolution. Each species adapts whatever it has to in order to continue it's survival. Those that can't, or don't, cease to exist.

@KKGator I know it..I sense your frustration..and dissappoint with those aspects of human nature that repeat themselves over and over again..and seem hard wired and difficult for everyone to shake off..that is why you have no foolish illusions..but I sense you feel a little regretful collective guilt that you should have to feel that way.

@Hitchens I've been a pragmatist since I figured out the concept.
I have few illusions, or delusions. I don't believe in "guilt", at all.
I tend to face things head-on and don't have time for bullshit.
Do I really wish humanity was better than it is? Absolutely.
Do I have any reasonable expectations that we'll change for the better?
No, I do not.
It is what it is. I'm not going to waste my time lamenting woulda/coulda/shoulda.

@KKGator

Guilt is more my thing..a remnant of my Catholic past..hard to shake that sometimes..?

@Hitchens I was raised catholic, too. I was also raised on guilt.
As soon as I realize what an atheist was, and that I was one, I shook off the whole deal. Okay, getting rid of the guilt took a little longer.

@KKGator

I see..well I didn't know for sure till I was about 16..what about you?

@Hitchens I knew everything I was hearing at church was false, even as a really little kid. I was probably 13 or 14 when I learned what being an atheist meant, and I immediately knew I was an atheist. That was also right around the time that I realized that I could go into St. Catherine of Sienna church, grab a program for that Sunday's 9 o'clock mass, take it and the collection money, walk across the street to Dunkin' Donuts, and have breakfast with my sister. We were forced to go to mass every week, but the adults never went. As long as I could prove we'd been inside the church every Sunday morning, they were never any the wiser to what we were actually doing. We rode with the neighbors from two blocks over and they never said anything, if they even knew. It's only the last few years that I've become an anti-theist as well.

@KKGator I too am a pragmatist...but glass half full not half empty hopefulness.

@bubaj50 It's good to be hopeful. As far as the glass goes, I say that the glass is refillable.

@KKGator

Wow..I did the same..I took a pamphlet from the door of the church..skipped to the middle to see which gospel reading it was that Sunday.. got the gist of it and smoked behind the trees near the church..my parents always went to early mass..I was allowed to go to noon mass..they would check on which gospel was on..it usually worked it fine..

I wouldn't leave home without my cantina of schadenfreude ! ??

Yes agreed..actually Mordant was proposing a similar opinion earlier both valid and incitful views.

Thanks Len.

But chances are he will live out his years in luxury, rich and happy and die surrounded by all the comforts of modern medicine.

@LenHazell53 I don’t think he is or is likely to become a happy person... he however gets some satisfaction from screwing people in ways that line his pockets... more than I want him to get what he deserves I want a president that will reverse all his hatful and ignorant policies and it would be nice if he lives to see a real president do to his work what he has done and is doing to Obama’s.

@Morganfreeman Since playing poker doesn’t destroy democracy I’ll give you a pass

@ArdentAtheist we all die poor! some will be loved more than others. We all know those that died and NOBODY CARED.

Nor me I have to say...but he will probably safely die in bed..We may just have to accept that horrible probability.

So are you saying that it isn't just shadenfreude or perhaps the "better them than me" impulse.
Or the S.O.B had it coming anyway attitude.

It's an inherent feeling of almost actual material loss, nevermind zero sum game scenario.

That basically everytime an individual under the radar suceeds..a little part of me dies at the opportunity forgone..that could have or should have been mine.

Personal scarcity over general scarcity..thats interesting.

Thanks for that Mordant.

Somehow , I never thought of Karma looking like poop . But you make a good point .

@Cast1es If you scrape it off your shoe, and the shoe fits.... ?

@zeuser If I scrape it off of my shoe , I'll also look for some soap , a scrub brush , and a hose with running water . And the poop might very well go into the compost pile .

Yes exactly context is king. If its a s.o.b getting their just desserts..that's one thing..if they are innocent that is quite another..

I do think they had practice . The prisoners , on the other hand , not likely . After all , they weren't looking for a fair fight for the prisoners , they were looking to see them punished .

@Cast1es Who bring us back to the Original Post and the Stands Ocupancy.

Caligula or Ceaser etc probably did not shower their unfortunate peoples (slaves or citizens) with the milk of human kindness...they basically fed their people on a cruel diet and spectacle of human tragedy and misfortune. True.

the "Mob", especially the ones that don't vote, deserve what they get. The US as with Rome....

@bubaj50 No doubt. Was Nero who wished all Roman Mob to have just one neck so it could be beheaded at once? Without checking it was Nero if not, the other usual suspect Caligula but I think it was Nero.

So not only are people fascinated and enjoying other people's misfortune..they proactively seek it out and even instigate their demise?

@Hitchens Sure are, drive around Boston for all of 10 miutes and you'll see a whole lot of cars with a "Yankees Suck" bumper sticker but nothing about the Red Sox.

Being the best and being great are not the same, one is focused on the self and the other is focused on others.

@mattersauce Red Socks suck too.

Same difference .

Agreed..you made your bed..you sleep in it...

Hi Buba,

Looks like you have beaten a rotten system..filled with a myriad of cloaks and daggers..taken a deserved place on the podium of winners and survivors of the great rat race..

Now I applaud that..and think we'll done you..but I suspect others would just begrudge you of what you have worked hard to achieve..

Thank you.

@Hitchens thank you for the compliment

Yes I suppose that's the root of it...

Thanks

Great response..thank you.

I pretty agree with everything you have said..

I also loved Monty Python...✔

Hi Meili...so it's not just human nature alone..its a perpetuated cycle by upbringing and culture..correct?

Thanks Meili

Yeah, basically. I know people change for the better when they are treated better and have their needs met so I don't think that human nature is just normally negative.

Yes that seems to be the general zeitgeist in this thread...punks had it coming anyway..and boy am I glad that it didn't happen to me..fair points.

Cheers.