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How do religions really develop? They are not something that is spontaneous they must be created.

Pascal Boyer does an excellent job explaining how it happens. First of all let's recognize that religion is a business. It is a business that supports those who are administrators of it's contraintuitive and counterfactual concepts. These are called priests,ministers or shaman's. He points out their product is worthless and so they must create ways to stay in business and these are the concepts they invent.These concepts are most powerful when they include political leverage, plus force, intimidation and psychological mechanisms.It is amazing that people have fallen for these concepts since the beginning of civilization.

Marine 8 Aug 27
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Irrational explanation of the starry heavens above us and the moral law within us 😉

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If we take a look at our mind ... and try to look rationally ... We realise that the mind is a converter. It converts perceptions and tries to store them. Unfortunately, there is no neutral little, conscientious, neutral librarian sitting inside the mind who organises the converted perceptions by labelling them properly and storing them systematically for easy storage and subsequent retrieval.
I see the mind as a sort of dump where all sorts of data are mixed and mingled. Just like a library in the process of being demolished with all the shelves pulled down and the books, and tapes and other information support materials thrown together.
We cannot store facts. Our mind decides what is fact and what is fiction. However, we seem to feel urge to label what we have in our mind as reality.
Some early humans recognised this and imagined a business model.
If we can free the people’s mind from the discomfort of confusion ... and BINGO Politics and religion were born.
Freelance shamans were to be replaced with religions structured like any good criminal organisation.
Now that the human era of religions seems to be coming to an end we see the last convulsions of Rambo fan clubs. Many of these idiots have been trained over the years by spending countless hours staring at screens and fighting some “enemy”.
It is fascinating to see the parallels between religious and military organisations: lots of symbols and a strict hierarchy.
Unfortunately, the criticism that has diminished the role of religions has not extended to the executive branch of religions: the killing machines: armies, navies and all the shit.

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Nothing unites a people against a common enemy better than religion.

But one must not forget that it is the religion that creates that commun enemy.

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At it's worst, superstition, observing patterns where there are none (sometimes called patternicity), then brainwashing the children. The more people in positions of power and the more children who get convinced (a great reason to forbid birth control, by the way), the faster it can happen.

At it's best, it's well-meaning folks who are trying to explain the world around them who just get it a bit wrong, and their followers who prefer deductive rather than inductive reasoning.

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I think its all based in our own mortality, people naturally fear death and hope for something more. Religion provided that and it doesn't matter if it was Christian religion from Europe and their version of heaven, Norse beliefs in gods of war and thunder and ultimately Valhalla, or Native Americans spirits and 'happy hunting ground'. All the rest was built upon that much like a business is built on a product for a profit, religion built on this fear of death to make money.

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I would disagree with the assertion that their product is completely worthless in that the sense of community and unity possible within a religion can directly effect for good and bad the world. The tools are always based on reason but the will to use the tools are quite often based on faith/belief not just in god but sometimes a nation/leader/cause. Irrelevant to the provable nature of the basis the actions change the world. I do agree that quite often it is horrific the result of their "product" but to state it is always evil or bad or negative is I think delusional.

Quarm Level 6 Aug 27, 2018
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I think religions develop from myths which develop from the human need to explain things that due to limitations of knowledge or condition have no known rational explanation(yet). When we are presented with the unknown we create a reason based on the available evidence and our own perception and understanding of the world limited as it may be. When you get a group together people adapt these explanations into a greater way of defining a groups relations not only with the outside world but themselves and each other. After the end of the hunter gatherer era and the rise of agriculture which led to permanent settlements and the rise of cities and technology the group became larger and the rise of the affluent class/educated class had the free time to take advantage of other humans wish for myths and stories and refine it into a mechanic for control. One could argue this control in some ways led to positive changes within a specific culture as it gave a sense of unity of purpose that drove accomplishments for the good of the people/state/nation etc. Of course at the same time this control was and continues to be used for great evils. One could argue that religion as a tool for control is similar to nationalism, racial identity etc, in that it creates a separation between groups that allows for atrocities and crimes that within the group are not considered such. Examples are the extermination of the Native Americans as both a result of both American nationalism(greed) and religious bigotry, the Israeli persecution of the Palestinians.. As much as the educated among humanity may want to believe humans can exist within a realm of pure reason the scope of human history shows I think without a doubt that this is impossible unless a time comes when we are something different then human. Plus as much as some may not want to admit this humans need I think dreams and myths to help navigate a world that quite often does not give a shit about them and even more works against them. Many human achievements start with ideas with little or no reasoned support but over time and application of reason, focus and lots of hard work bring about what many would say was impossible. This I think explains why many scientists and past and current great thinkers have had and do have faith in some force or ideal behind the provable. I have known plenty of good people who have found solace from horrible life events in the idea of god/goddess or some form of divinity (not always Christian). Are they less for it? If you say yes to this how can you hold to the hubris of living their life/experiencing their reality? We are still adrift in a universe of mystery and awe and while I do think it all has a explanation I do not think there is a inherent evil in finding unprovable explanations to the unknown as a coping mechanism.

Quarm Level 6 Aug 27, 2018
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There are choices outside of that dichotomy you present in your title. Many times, it's never one or the other...

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As a way of explaining things people did not understand. Now, business and power.

I think it has always been about power.

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L Ron Hubbard founded the church of Scientology.

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Because they work. Fear, hate, belief in the superiority of one's own race, are easy to stir up for manipulating people, and religion does this well.

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I actually Googled that one a while back and they feel like religion started about the same time as agriculture I'm not going to give you a lecture on it or anything but yeah if you Google it you can read about some hypotheses that archaeologists and students of ancient history have come up with

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For organized religion you are spot on, but before that there was a spontaneous reaction to the unknown and fearful that enabled the shamans, etc. to take hold. Michael Shermer deals with this portion frequently in his books and lectures.

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The link above is "Hidden Brain: Creating God"

Religion, it's origins, it's original intent, it's function in society, are often maligned by those of us who've left it behind. I understand that many of us have suffered in ways small and large at the hands of religion, but that's no reason to stop trying to view all things with open eyes.
I know I'll catch a lot a flack for what many here view will view as defending religion -a point that I won't necessarily dispute- but that's just what happens when one of your favorite pastimes is playing devil's advocate (pun very much intended).
Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode because it took what I view as a more nuanced and objective approach on the subject.

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